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Author: Bluey H Timestamp:- 2/6/2003 4:37:40 PM Subject: Re: The World's Richest Races
Message: Interesting post Tonto and one worthy of much, much more discussion.
Points I'd like to raise include what type of racing organisations do these places have, I mean such as, do they have country/picnic meetings moving up to provincials then city class like we do or another system.
I know the UK is pretty much similiar to ours but not sure about Europe and the good old US of A.
What about Japanese racing, the place doesn't seem big enough to have a swag of country or provoincial tracks ..again I presume the have lower class races for the also-rans.
On a per capita basis it is also worthy of study whether these figures compare favourably or not with OZ racing, although why should we hold up our racing as some sort of prime example I really don't know.
Lastly I would love to know what tote (pari mutual) figures these race clubs hand out they get or do they run the betting machines themselves ...and I presume there is no help from bookies who don't exist in most of these places.
And Bro PJ nice to see you corrected your spelling ...
Author: Tontonan Timestamp:- 3/6/2003 5:51:23 AM Subject: Re: The World's Richest Races
Message: Bluey,
You raise some very interesting points but I dont pretend to know the answers....but I am looking into it.
The 20 richest races is an interesting list as the Kentucky Derby, arguably one of the gretest races in the world is not on it. It is worth $US 1 million but in terms of the prestige, and residual breeding value, the prizemoney is irrelavent (except for Funny Cide, who is a gelding).
I also did a quick count of the Group One races held throughout the world. There are about 417 Group One races held each year in the following countries -
48 ARGENTINA 66 AUSTRALIA 35 BRAZIL 4 CANADA 21 CHILE 28 ENGLAND 27 FRANCE 9 GERMANY 5 HONG KONG 10 IRELAND 8 ITALY 2 JAPAN 22 NEW ZEALAND 23 SOUTH AFRICA 1 SINGAPORE 4 UNITED ARAB EMIRATES 105 USA
I was particularly surprised that Japan hosts only 2 Group One races. Also, some of the Group One races in South America are worth as little as $US 6,000.
The more I look at it, the more meaningless the Group One status becomes.
Author: Leilani Timestamp:- 3/6/2003 10:08:44 AM Subject: Re: The World's Richest Races
Message: Some interesting numbers...I make it.....
Nth. America = 109 Sth. America = 104 (way too many) Australasia = 88 Europe = 82 Africa = 23 (only 1 country & fair enough) Asia = 8 (probably under their quota now) Middle East = 4
...gives a good idea as to the numbers geographically.
Author: Da G Show Timestamp:- 3/6/2003 11:31:50 AM Subject: Re: The World's Richest Races
Message: Tonto
Using the JAIR website, I counted approx 30 G1 races in Japan.
What's your source?
You have to also note that some countries have G1's that are not recognised internationally. HK have a lot of HKG1s but only 5 as you cite are recognised internationally.
This may be the case in South America and other parts as well.
Author: Tontonan Timestamp:- 4/6/2003 9:58:53 AM Subject: Re: The World's Richest Races
Message: Geeshow,
The site I got them from was the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities. There does seem to be a distinction between Internationally recognised Group One races and locally designated Group One races, but this has little to do with the quality of the races.
For example, I would imagine that every one of the locally designated Japanese Group 1 races would be superior to the US$6,500 Gran Premio De Honor in Argentina, yet the Argentinean race is internationally recognised as gr.1 while only 2 of the 30 Japanese Gr.1 races are internationally recognised as Gr.1.
The site also includes the following explanation of the the Group or Pattern System of race classification.
"Article 1.- PATTERN RACES.
An International List made out by the European Pattern Race Committee has classified by Group the principal races in each country.
This system allows a better basis for assessing penalties and allowances which are no longer calculated by reference to amounts won but according to the prestige and importance of races won. It also makes it easier to assess the quality of participating horses, as well as their classification.
In reckoning qualifications, penalties or allowances, the Pattern races are separated into Groups in the ? Pattern Races Book ? published by the European Pattern Race Committee.
The Pattern Races Book published every year includes Pattern races in France, Germany, Great Britain, Ireland, Italy and Sweden.
The lists of Graded Races drawn up on the same principles for the principal racing and breeding countries in the world are published in the booklet ? International Cataloguing Standards ? edited by the American Jockey Club.
These countries will try to use the same system with their neighbours or within their geographical zone...."
Beyond that I cant find any explanation of what distinguishes an Internationally Recognised Gr.1 race from a locally designated Group 1 race. However it is clear that there is nothing particularly magical about Group One races. There are some pretty ordinary races designated to be Group One, not only in this country.
I am tempted to suggest that prizemoney would be a better indicator of a races 'worth' but this is not always the case. Notice that the Kentucky Derby does not appear in the top 20 list (its worth an even US$1 million) but it is one of the most prestigous and important races in the world. Some nations, such as Argentina, are important thoroughbred nations but simply don't have the cash to stake their races to the extent that others do.
The site is worth a look, if only to get an insight into the diversity of international racing and how many things the various racing nations don't agree on.
Author: Tontonan Timestamp:- 4/6/2003 10:16:47 AM Subject: Re: The World's Richest Races
Message: Another notable exception to the list of Internationally recognized Group One races is the Queen's Plate in Canada. This race is for 3yo's over 2000m and is arguably the most important and most prestigous race in Canada. However it is restricted to horses foaled in Canada. This may be why it is not regarded as an Internationally Recognised Group One race...that's just my guess, as it is certainly regarded as a Group One race by the Canadians.
Message: tontonan, you're quite right there. id say that could be the factor that determines wheather a race is internationally recognised. perhaps many of the japanese group1 races are restricted to japanese horses. interestingly i read that for a three year old to race in hong kong it cant have had any more than 10 races before racing in HK. that would tell me that their 3yr old group races are restricted to HK bred or owned horses.
Author: im the gun Timestamp:- 5/6/2003 4:13:31 PM Subject: Re: The World's Richest Races
Message: going on this, 66 group 1 races and the most in the world, we must have the best horse in the world. BUT WE DON'T! and I can't even remember when we did. Australian racing needs to kill off many of the races, I have been saying this for years. We are not the best racing nation in the world, we don't have the best sires, mares, jockeys, trainers or anything!
Author: im the gun Timestamp:- 6/6/2003 5:44:02 PM Subject: Re: The World's Richest Races
Message: How many of the last 10 Slipper winners have won in open age group class? The Slipper is a overrated BS race. Winners like Catbird went on to do nothing after winning the slipper, and he's just one of many to do so. If I owned a hore that was racing in he slipper, I going on what I've seen over the last 10 years would want to finish in the placings. The runners up have the better lifetime record in the long run.
Author: Leilani Timestamp:- 7/6/2003 7:22:42 AM Subject: Re: The World's Richest Races
Message: While each raceclub is free to set their own agenda, this will continue.....i.e. overhyped races such as the Golden Slipper.
Unless an independant national racing body is created, it will only go on & on....a bit like these posts.
While most followers/punters can see the logical way to do things..... or is that the illogical way clubs tend to do things.....hence, money is the overriding factor.
Heaven forbid if the likes of Hawkes, Waterhouse, Freedman etc. should veto such races & say we are making a conserted effort to lift the profile of more deserving races....WON'T HAPPEN!!!!
And, I can understand why...if you're the owner of a 'neddie' who is good enough to compete in or win a Slipper, then thanks very much for....THE 71 SECONDS OF MULA!!!!
Message: ok the golden slipper is over hyped but what other Australian race creates the Stallions that this race does?
does not the quota of Group 1 races also have something to do with the thoroughbred numbers in each country?
if you group all the European countries under the one banner then you come up with something like 82 group 1 races, but is their horse population comparable to ours, or the US, in terms of numbers?
i would whole-heartedly agree that Australia could cull some of the group 1 races, there is no doubt about that. i have my own list of what i believe are our genuine group 1 races.
i also agree Tontonan that the term "group 1" does seem to be losing some of its lustre, but when you think about it, if there were 500 group 1 races run all over the world, in percentage terms, i would not imagine that that is a great many.
can you, Tontonan, post a web address for that site you have taken these figures from please?
Sure thing. The site was the International federation of Horseracing Authorities. Inbox me for the site.
Note that this is a list of Internationally recognised Group One races, not all Group One races. Many famous races such as the Hong Kong Derby and the Queens Plate in Canada are Group One races in their own country but not Internationally recognised.
Message: 'Racing and Sports trusts that the TalkBack forum will assist its users in sharing their knowledge and build a community of experts.'
That does not extend to the posting a simple web address.
Sorry OldVic. I tried to post the address. My message was censored. Try typing the International Federation of Horseracing Authorities into a search engine.
Racing and Sports is the best collection of Australian Racing resources on the web, but this forum will never realise its goals while it - a) maintains its policy against the sharing of information that involves the posting of web addresses, and b) maintains a moderation policy that is so slow it makes snail mail seem pretty slick.
There are other places that provide for the free exchange of information and opinions on horse racing without the paranoia.
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