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Author: muirfield Timestamp:- 22/1/2004 7:09:07 PM Subject: Lonhro v Thorn Park
Message: As far as I'm aware these excitement machines are going to clash over 1200m in the Expressway (Randwick Feb 14) and over 1400m in the Apollo (Randwick Feb 28).
Possibly add Private Steer into the mix!
Now clearly Lonhro is twice the horse over 1600, but does anyone think Thorn Park can beat him over 1200m or even 1400m?
Message: Northerly didn't handle Sydney tracks and looked a tired horse. He threw his head around all over the place and was poorly ridden by a low strike rate jockey yet still ran a record and got beaten a lip. Another jockey he wins by 2 lengths easy.
Author: Bell Flight Timestamp:- 24/1/2004 12:04:44 AM Subject: Re: Lonhro v Thorn Park
Message: Iglesia, that's a priceless collection of the worst excuses for a good horse losing we will ever see.
If Defier can handle Moonee Valley, Lonhro can. End of story.
We saw in 2003 exactly the difference this so called missing the start made in 2002 - NONE! He was still in the same spot in 2003 - after jumping brilliantly - as he was in 2002.
Lonhro is like Clijsters... he looks great beating up on the weakies in the prelims but come the finals, he goes away meekly!
Author: Gary Still Timestamp:- 23/1/2004 9:47:59 PM Subject: Re: Lonhro v Thorn Park
Message: Muiry, I posted this on the Yalumba ages ago. ____________________________________________
"The jockey on Sunline rode well, but he was being chased by a perfectionist who knew that anything less than a perfect ride would be certain defeat.
When Sunline steamed ahead, Beadman rated Lonhro to perfection. He did not click up instantaneously as Sunline clapped on the speed. Instead, he rated Lonhro SMOOTHLY and EVENLY and the horse did not have to spend one extra cent in SURGING. And when Lonhro came off the fence he had PERFECT COVER behind the ?shotgun? horse, Ustinov, and patiently held that position until he believed he had SAVED ENOUGH for a final assault on the leader." _____________________________________________
Yes the pace was on, but Lonhro was not hustled and bustled, and as I have said many times before it was rated to perfection. Beadman kept his foot steady on the pedal throughout. Not once did he get sucked into CHASING Sunline when it surged. Instead Lonhro's pace remained even, and Sunline slowed down in the back straight before getting herself ready for the second petrol burning surge. Beadman's ability to keep the pace EVEN on Lonhro, while being baited by Sunline to chase it, made this a remarkably economical ride.
When you see a jockey put in a masterful ride like this one, he is unwittingly telling you that if he doesnt ride it PERFECTLY, he will lose.
That race did not tell me Lonhro handles pace. That race told me that UNASSISTED, Lonhro loses.
Author: muirfield Timestamp:- 23/1/2004 9:29:19 PM Subject: Re: Lonhro v Thorn Park
Message: Gary that's great that you can detect high cruising speeds so why can't you see that that helped Lonhro in fast run races like the 2002 Yalumba?
High cruising speeds are a huge asset in almost every race but the Cox Plate, as that percular race requires a flat out sprint for 1000m.
See Lonhro and Bel Esprit.
And where did I declare Keep the Faith the Derby winner. I poised a question to stimulate debate - your good self has been known to do that occasionally yourself. Please don't misqoute.
Anyway, why don't you visit the chat and debate some of your theories like the good old days?
Message: how come lonhro can handle caulfield but not mv? if hawkes was worried about the track how come he didnt start the horse in the feehan? sounds like infidel's excuse is a load of balony.
Author: Gary Still Timestamp:- 23/1/2004 9:00:22 PM Subject: Re: Lonhro v Thorn Park
Message: Muiry,
My apologies for my presumptuous remark "..even though I have written copiously on HOW to detect high cruising speed, in the past" which I now withdraw.
Author: Gary Still Timestamp:- 23/1/2004 7:42:05 PM Subject: Re: Lonhro v Thorn Park
Message: Muiry,
1. First you appear to have "gleaned" a Derby win for Keep the Faith, as a result of a thrashing in snail pace time.
2. Now you tell me Lonhro has "high cruising speed" a characteristic which I apparently have not been able to grasp, even though I have written copiously on HOW to detect high cruising speed, in the past.
Regrettably, I have NO IDEA how you arrived at the above two conclusions.
Author: muirfield Timestamp:- 23/1/2004 6:29:06 PM Subject: Re: Lonhro v Thorn Park
Message: Gary with a fast pace Lonhro wins by more because he gets a great cart into the race using his high cruising speed.
BUT, he can only sustain an out and out SPRINT for about 600m so when they go from the 1000m at the goat track he was disadvantaged.
Gary I think you should know the difference between a high cruising speed and an out and out sprint matey.
p.s interesting Lonhro and Thorn Park both won the Hobartville with a leg in the air as three year olds on Apollo Stakes day. Lonhro in fact has won on this day for the past two years. It will be a race!
Message: You do go on with your idiotic talk of "Sydney" wfa races. The fact is he hasn't been beaten in Melbourne since he was a 2yo, at anywhere but the preposterous valley.
Author: groucho Timestamp:- 23/1/2004 5:36:30 PM Subject: Re: Lonhro v Thorn Park
Message: I can buy most of what you said..but let's not forget one thing...in the 2003 Cox Plate, Beadman rode to instructions, unfortunately for all involved, the stable instructions were wrong.
If he starts his final races in Sydney as indicated by muirfield, it would leave many of his fans bitterly disappointed.....The best horse in the country running in weak G2 races in Sydney for less than half the prizemoney of two G1 races in Melbourne!!! Doesn't make sense.
I hope the mail on this is wrong and he is given a chance at G1 glory right through his final campaign.
lonhro can't sustain a sprint of more than 250m if ridden fwd. He has to go back to be able to sprint and from there can't beat horses who travel fast from the 1000m to the 200m mark.
Cox Plates are won and lost b/t the 1000m and the 200m mark like all genuine races. Cream Puff only wins these sit and sprint races in Sydney because they walk from the 1000m to the 600m then sprint home. That suits him.
He only won the Yalumba cause he got carted into the race.
0/3 in majors and beaten 5.5 lengths in the Doncaster - he's a Cream Puff.
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