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Author: maccamax Timestamp:- 6/11/2008 7:55:27 AM Subject: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: BART CUMMINGS is the Worlds BEST trainer on Melbourne Cup days..Undisputed , incredable record , A genius is the description. But the lead ups paint a far different picture..In FACT Bart Cummings win percentage on the main Australian tracks rates with the worst....Interesting to see what others feel about the great man's training stats ..He rates high in starters , very low in winners....Allowing for the fact he may lean toward staying types I for one rarely find his horses rate high..They qualify for the mission and then do a Viewed.
Author: maccamax Timestamp:- 11/11/2008 2:27:17 PM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: johnnybegood...yep...throw em all in ...The jocks are outed everyday for some minor indescretion...When did we last see a trainer in ...O'Brien to quieten the shock he delivered , big deal....Miss Andretti , ohhh yes stunned the trainer promised vet checks .. BUT someone had prior knowlege , all they wanted to do was lay M>A>....The sums don't add up....What could the vets tell us that wasn't well known to some before the race. Punters treated like fools as usual. Debate on Forums may tell them we aint all asleep, blind , happy and prepared to cop their deceit.
Author: jonnybegood Timestamp:- 11/11/2008 2:04:56 PM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: Macca, lets turn this around, any stats on how far in front we would be on backing his firmers and laying his favs?
Also welcome all comments , but, i reckon you can throw the Denhams in with the Cummings when it comes to horses performing with respect to price or reverse of.
Author: maccamax Timestamp:- 11/11/2008 11:14:18 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: d_woodsio...When we see an unexpected BIG firmer anytime it is wise to take notice. When you see it 15 times out of 30 with one trainer its time STEWARDS took notice.
Author: maccamax Timestamp:- 11/11/2008 10:53:37 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: Astute/punter Trainer....they do have another word for it. Those stats on his last 35 winners are enough and frightening ??? Duck eggs to well backed winners doesn't paint a good picture. JUSTICE has to be seen to be done...
Author: D-Woodsio Timestamp:- 11/11/2008 10:02:17 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: well written Driver, totally agree..
probably the best thing to do with Barts runners is to follow the market, he has been around a while, seems to know when his horses are going well - and punts accordingly, astute trainer/punter
Author: maccamax Timestamp:- 11/11/2008 7:41:16 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: Driver...Well read Sir....Ridden upside down was a surprise....My only thought on that days racing is the "GOOD" track was closer to SLOW and this is a regular misleading Punter trap...Took a field of good sprinters over 1.11 to cover the 1200m .I Rest my case..Same all day......A.C 1st up may have found it too tough...I see other outlets have made the suggestion some of the connections of form reversals be given the opportunuty to at least explain the betting on recent runs.....GREAT....especially when the betting tells us its ON again ...I remember posting long ago "don't ask the vet what's wrong , ask the bookmakers"
Author: tigerrish Timestamp:- 11/11/2008 6:29:19 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: Macca, you keep going on about forums being for people to express an opinion. Yet when someone gives an opinion that you dont like you sulk and complain about them. But when its someone who agrees with you, as rare as it is, then you shower them with praise. Dont start a thread if you dont like the responses you get.
You keep going on about the form Swick was in. Do a bit more study about the class he's been racing in as opposed to Sunburnt Land. Group one and two level constantly is far better than rating 89 class, you have to expect a stutter in form on an occasion and thats what his last start was. Outside of that he'd been going well.
Swick is no superstar, but he's proven at the class level and C&D, so he has to be considered everytime he starts, regardless of his previous start. By your theory, Apache Cat should be a long shot next start then?....after all, he has a blot to his name after last weekend. Would it then make Eurell sneaky too?
You dont have to agree with people pal, but you get nowhere trying to shove your own ideals down people throats like you are the saviour to all here.
Author: Rex Timestamp:- 11/11/2008 3:12:49 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: Macca,
re: Swick-take out Apache Cat (i.e the bad run) and Swicks form up the straight was as strong as any in the race.
re: Sinatra- after writing in this forum for so long Ive never seen anyone rile Sinatra, he is by all accounts a R&S gentleman. This was not stated to make myself sound good, rather the point I was making is that your posts seem to have riled someone who, on all evidence, is not easily riled, suggesting you should "check" your delivery.
Not to much more to say about your previous post as once again it is written in a way that is a ramble, lot of words but small on content
Author: driver Timestamp:- 11/11/2008 12:25:12 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: sunburnt lad out of his class , what!!! ...His "ordinary" jockey followed AC into the race ,racing just off and behind Ac. When Ac started to fade ,he lost his composure and decided to take off at the 300m .the horse was left a sitting duck for the closing efforts of the other two . If his jockey rode his own race and had sunburnt lad out the back with swick or waited as he should of, imho would of won running away . In no way was he out of his class .. I'll go so far as to say he'll be he next spinting star .
Author: maccamax Timestamp:- 10/11/2008 10:27:56 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: Tigerrish....point is some have reasonable lead up form. Cummings horses ???.....Sunburnt land wasn't good enough no arguement but Punters felt he was unlucky at his previous placing and supported him. Only to see him relegated by two outsiders...I always cry when the Bolters knock me out..Especially coming off a Duck Egg and firming 29/1 ---12/1 I may well be very wrong ...purely expressing an opinion ...Others too are entitled to theirs and we all line up again for "better or for worse" tomorrow ..
Author: infidel Timestamp:- 10/11/2008 9:47:48 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: Swick was the obvious second choice- a proper wfa class Flemington 1200m horse, even though he rarely wins, a bit of give in the ground. Triple Honour is a miler, sunburnt land was out of his class.
At $21, a man is a fool for not backing him, even if he did not have the advantage of the secret service info that bookies had. I am a fool. Apache Cat just turned me off the race. I did not look at it as a betting race. But even if you though Apache Cat should be 1/2, 20/1 about the second highest rated horse in a race with very few chances is a good bet.
Author: maccamax Timestamp:- 10/11/2008 9:39:10 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: REX ...Your point doesnt make sense ..Swick went over the same course and D in his lead up run and returned a Duck egg...He had four other defeats same C+D since winning there last preperation...WOW .Group one Sat. 20/1 - 12/1 he didn't lose aye ..... If we dont learn from History ??? Congrats . on your long service however promotion is decided these days on ability so whats yr point..To support an abuser Sinatra refers to others by calling them a TWAT so you defend that' FORUMS are for expression of subject opinion which in racing will differ .Otherswise we wouldnt see every horse in most races receive support. I'm fully aware Bart Cummings is a God , a legend and all those good things .Statues erected in his honour. ....To me he is what I have written and that is purely on a forum for others to express the opinions we are all entitled to ...At least I put forward some stats to support my view.
Author: tigerrish Timestamp:- 10/11/2008 3:59:23 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: Macca, why would you be crying if you backed Sunburnt Land?
Up until a few weeks ago it was a restricted class horse and if he was a class horse he would have won. He didnt.
As for Swick, when you compete at the top level you're bound to get rolled more than you win, you'll even put in a poor run too. He did in the Salinger, but aside from that run, he had performed pretty well at the distance and on the track, and at a level (aside from AC) better than that lot.
Zero out Apache Cat from the race and alot of punters would have steered toward the tried and true. Sunburnt Land isnt in that equation, Swick would have been. Think you have a MC hang over about JBC.
Author: theknuck Timestamp:- 10/11/2008 1:18:05 AM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: macca, firstly I do agree with you that i find it very hard to follow one of Barts with any great confidence.
But I know people who own horses with Bart and they seem perfectly happy that he is giving their horses every chance to perform their best every time they hit the racetrack. They often send me emails in the lead up to their horses running and i've never heard, "its just going around this week to inflate the odds next time around".
Another thing I have noticed with him is that he is never afraid to chuck them in group races even when their form doesnt warrent it. They have had several runners in group 1 races this year at 50/1 and worse. I must say that all have run accordingly. For all the Book of Kells', there are many Sir James' and Fianchettos.
Author: maccamax Timestamp:- 9/11/2008 9:34:51 PM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: Insom...hahahahaha ...Heard it all after that ...How are his horses legs when the group ones are on ...And when the dollars go on ...Admire your Loyalty to very a successful trainer at carnival times but I treat his horses with great care and they can win without me...His big priced winners have caught me many times ..The Yearling Sales too, He does't only catch punters off guard.
Author: Mandrake Timestamp:- 9/11/2008 9:10:31 PM Subject: Re: IS BART A PUNTERS FRIEND ?
Message: On these 'form reversals' on another website this was said: "when is the last time in Australian racing – across the eastern seaboard States of Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne – that any trainer got rubbed out in a “retrospective running and handling inquiry”? .....
How can horses run ingloriously for a few starts get up and win when, in some cases, are heavily backed?
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