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Not particulary suprising that you omitted the fact that Caulfield Cup winner Diatribe was runner up in the 2000 Cox Plate. Yes, Referral didn't set the world on fire, he ran okay that day though. Sunline produced one of the greatest performances in Australasian turf history. For a horse to take the most prestigious Australasian WFA race by the scruff of the neck from the 800 and space the best WFA horses in the land by the equal biggest winning margin, it is simply remarkable. I tell you this Speedy, the reasonably adept trainers Brian Mayfield-Smith and Bart Cummings were suitably impressed. Your ridiculous summation just dissipates in the methane gas windmills of your tiny mind.
Author: kidlat Timestamp:- 30/4/2011 1:15:23 PM Subject: Re: War Amiral versus Carbine
Understand what you say about the diva at 2000m, but thats why I suggested her as a 6yo in the mock race. Strangely she seemed to get more speed in her latter years without losing any of her stamina. In that last 12 months of her career (Aus Cup, Cox Plate plus the others), she just seemed invincible. Interesting hypothetical though
Author: geelong63 Timestamp:- 30/4/2011 12:38:55 PM Subject: Re: War Amiral versus Carbine
Message: Just trying to keep you from running off Quez. Applying the lugging bit. ----------------- Northerly beat Sunline at their three meetings, from memory all at MV(?), but perhaps she wasn't quite as good as an older mare. She wouldn't have to make up much ground to get very close to him (in the wet, no betting). Problem is, when he saw her he'd simply go into his 'you-may-have-got-level-but-you-won't-be-getting-past' mode. If she was in front he'd simply grind her down and win by a head. Will always be that way in my mind.
Hard to judge SYT as a 4YO because he was rarely in a dogfight and certainly never met a horse of their calibre.
Author: Balciano Timestamp:- 30/4/2011 10:16:21 AM Subject: Re: War Amiral versus Carbine
Message: No definitive answer and one of those debates that will go around in circles...but its a bit of fun.
For what its worth Sunline 2000 Cox Plate day as a 5 Yr old was incomparable, the greatest performance I've seen. Northerly was a deadset champion and loved a target, so I'll say he'd a neck away, SYT a half length away 3rd with a couple of lengths to the Diva. Great Mare, and her 3 Melbourne Cups is the greatest racing achievement I'll ever witness but her WFA/open class strike rate of around 1 in 3 suggests she's not in the WFA class of the other 3 over 2040.
Dulcifys, Cox Plate in 1979 was awesome, as he tragically passed away at his peak the very next start we remember him on that performance alone, he certainly wasn't unbeatable and had compelling rivlalries with horses like Shivaree and Double Century but his untimely passing has left him as one of those "what could have been" stories.
Mind you if the race was at Flemington over 2000, Northerly and Dulcify would come into their own and the great Kiwi mare would struggle to run a place.
Author: quezacotl Timestamp:- 30/4/2011 5:04:42 AM Subject: Re: War Amiral versus Carbine
Message: I dunno what I'm doing anymore Geelong..perhaps I need new material, ever since lostclarity took a few shots at you, you're not the same amiable chap that I used to know..is it me, or have we gone our separate ways...sigh..
Author: geelong63 Timestamp:- 30/4/2011 12:39:26 AM Subject: Re: War Amiral versus Carbine
Message: Short attention span Quez.
What relevance is Makybe Diva's form over long distances as an older horse when considering a Cox Plate run against the 3 champs? Or was it that you just wanted a hook to tell us you backed another roughie?
Author: quezacotl Timestamp:- 29/4/2011 7:54:06 PM Subject: Re: War Amiral versus Carbine
Message: So you think Makybe diva Sunline Northerly
Margins..a neck, a head 3 lengths...^_^
you guys take the diva way too lightly...she was the dead set freak of all freaks...10 wide at the school and still beats rounds em all up for a spanking, gives Grand Armee a furlong headstart at Rosehill in the BMW and rounds him up like a turbo charged highway patrol car chasing a hyundai.
her never to be broken record of 3 melb cups" in a row" But how on Earth did Sound action beat her in the Ranvet..? Dunno but I remember backing Sound Action that day...a very underated galloper indeed and a nice collect.
Author: geelong63 Timestamp:- 29/4/2011 12:29:36 AM Subject: Re: War Amiral versus Carbine
Message: Depends on who else is in the race Quez - the pace, barriers, and of course track conditions and jocks.
Assuming a Good-Dead, with barriers 3,4,5,6 for any of them in a field of 12: I think we know the Northerly V Sunline result from history; wouldn't back Makybe Diva against either of the boys; and in a dogfight I'd want to be on Northerly.
Give me So You Think as a 3YO against them at any age though.
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