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Helmet was the $2.80 2011 cox plate fave and ran 1.35 on a slow track at Caulfield for the mile.
On TIMES he's a special..
FILL YOUR BOOTS weight special/md/iglesia "LUMP ON" these milers can't win G2s in oz and are slow.
FRANKEL $1.20 EXCELEBRATION $5.50 STRONG SUIT $11.00 SO YOU THINK $11.00 WORTHADD $26.00 PREMIO LOCO $41.00 RED JAZZ $41.00 SIDE GLANCE $34.00 HELMET $41.00 INDOMITO $50.00 WINDSOR PALACE $101.00 BULLET TRAIN $101.00
Message: In a classic win-win scenario, So You Think gets the chance to post his 11th Group One win in the Eclipse, while Frankel will step up to a mile-and-a-quarter in the Juddmonte (sponsored by his owner). For what it's worth, I doubt So You Think would have beaten Frankel, but this way, Frankel's connections can turn a minor risk into no risk.
Author: Rex Timestamp:- 21/6/2012 6:02:39 PM Subject: Re: HELMET v FRANKEL
Message: Patsy- Godolphin thought he was their best chance at Ascot this week. Was a very good run, but if he's half as good as they say he is he was entitled to get home, did very little in the run.
Message: Will be interesting to see if they go through with their plan to run Frankel in the 2000m Juddmonte International at York this campaign.
With the emphasis on middle distance racing, there's no doubt that Frankel's future stud value will be severely affected if champion 'miler' is all that his CV can boast. Breeders want to know.
For this reason alone, they'll have to bite the bullet, sooner or later and try him at a middle distance.
Message: Sounds a bit ridiculous that they have taken so long to work out SYT. I don't buy it. Top win last night and this superb horse has flown the flag with such distinction. Having said that, if he comes up against Frankel he'd need to find another couple of gears.
Author: Rex Timestamp:- 21/6/2012 1:42:08 AM Subject: Re: HELMET v FRANKEL
Message: I can assure you having sat in the press conference that AOB is in no doubt he has got it completely wrong with this horse- Rupert Bell (interviewer) said it was like sitting in on a confessional.
AOB stated clearly that he trained the speed out of him in an attempt to get him to run 2400m and it was a big mistake.
That was the SYT we all thought he was today. Ill say right now he should get a 132/33 TF rating and if Im right its puts him right up there and fully justifies what many have said for a long time now- super horse. AOB said he would try to talk the owners into keeping him training but the decision would be made by the owners- didn't sound hopeful.
Author: Rex Timestamp:- 21/6/2012 1:01:01 AM Subject: Re: HELMET v FRANKEL
Message: So You Think wins the POW in outstanding fashion- going nearly 2 secs faster than standard. They are finally training/riding this horse to his strengths. Yes he could win at 2400 but surely anyone who thinks he is better suited to 2400m will now finally admit that his best distance in Europe is 2000m. Am about to head into the press conference and see what AOB and JOB have to say- should be interesting- nearly as interesting as what rating he will get!
Message: Yeah Rex,I still believe SYT properly trained would make a great 2400 horse! Not knocking AOB as a trainer,but I think he got caught up in the early hype of the capabilities of SYT and believed that SYT was better than he actually was. I myself believe SYT,good as he performed last season ,could have performed better with a more suitable race schedule,taking in the George and Lizzie and culminating in The Arc !
I (like others) was very impressed with the performance of SYT here in Aus and even though I believed he would meet tougher opposition in the UK I believed he was up too it. He proved he was up to it, but as far as I could see ,he just didn't kick on!
I did not say anything "with authority" at all. I did suggest that had TF rated properly last season then they would have been able to rate him properly this time.
You did say previously that you believed Excelebration was overall a better horse than Cape Blanco, didnt you? You still believe that after last night?
Excelebration's best distance is a mile and he beat home Side Glance by a neck. The same Side Glance who has won a mere two Gr3 race in his life and in the process beating the same horse in Dance The Dance in both events. Dance The Dance has never even won a Listed race let alone a Gr race but he ran Side Glance to less than a length last time out.
And a couple more strides and Side Glance beats Excelebration home in the Queen Anne.
Or how about Indomito, he finished just over a length from Excelebration. He's won just one race in his last 22 starts, a low class Listed event in Germany.
And are you one of these people who wants to totally disregard Helmet's woeful form leading into the race and use him as a yardstick because he's won 2 Gr1 races at a mile in the past?
Who outside of Excelebration, were you surprised at how big a margin it was back to them, seriously?
I think you and those at TF have overrated Excelebration primarily because he's copped several hammerings from Frankel and his solitary Gr1 win, albeit in France against opposition that have done nothing to frank that win one bit in the aftermath.
Author: Rex Timestamp:- 20/6/2012 4:32:05 PM Subject: Re: HELMET v FRANKEL
Message: Loges
147 is a big figure- I would have thought it would have taken slightly longer than 2 minutes to come up with it. In fact- I would like to see what those in behind do next start before coming up with a figure, but appreciate TF and others don't have that liberty. The horse is freakish and the win was amazing- Im fortunate to be live on course for it. He has ran very good time but still hasn't broken any record and has ran a slower time than Goldikova in similar conditions. Would he beat Goldikova? Yes in my opinion- would he beat her by 20 odd pounds? No in my opinion.
Message: Frankel simply awesome, but I'm with tiger, re the opposition is c**p and overrated. Excellebration rated higher then SYT based on one Group 1 win and because he's been racing against the superstar says it all really??
The E&E breed are never going to be genuine milers and I have no doubt SYT would have lengths on that lot over a mile.
Lets see Frankel over 10f smash some genuine world class opposition please, before we rate him the best to ever grace the turf!!
What bitterness and where was I picking flaws with Frankel?
Read what I wrote properly you foolish person.
I think you've gotten yourself so worked up with this idea that sensible race watchers in this country have automatically dumped him no matter what he does, that you dont actually read what people write. You dont see "best horse ever" written and you take that as a put down. Grow up you sook.
If you actually took notice of the point I was making, then you'd work out that TF have constantly used Excelebration as the yard stick for why Frankel has been rated so highly. They and several others have put Excelebration on some mythical pedastal and think he's alot better than he really is.
Frankel thumped him and the rest in a very fast time.
Take out Frankel and he wins, barely and against horses who are, at best Gr3 level. If you can make a case for anything behind Excelebration for any of them being at Gr1 level, then I'd like to hear it.
I've argued all along that TF got it wrong with Frankel from the outset when they gave him 142 in the Guineas last year against unproven opposition in slow time. Now that he's increased the margin and ran fast time, they've got no choice but to increase that rating to something unheard of even though the opposition is poor.
He should have been rated realistically around mid to lower 130's as a 3yo and after that run yesterday, then been afforded a rating at around 140. To give him 147 when the opposition is ordinary is slur on horses like Sea The Stars, Harbinger etc who won by good margins, ran time and beat truly class proven opposition.
Its not a slur on Frankel, its not his fault nor his connections.
What happens if he lines up over 10f, wins by a decent margin in fast time and beats horse like Cirrus, SYT Snow Fairy etc?
They have no choice but to lift him above 150, right?
Author: Barossa Boy Timestamp:- 20/6/2012 12:08:30 PM Subject: Re: HELMET v FRANKEL
Message: Poor Tigger.
He's trying really hard here. Some emotion, thrill, imagination and magic is trying to seep into his body, but he is resisting it all. Good luck to him. He more than likely smirked and gave a "pfffffffff" when Frankel crossed the line. I was on the floor, trying to pick up the pieces as to what I had just witnessed.
He's playing Scully to your Mulder Patsy. Dr. Watson to Sherlock Holmes. There's always one.
Author: MD Timestamp:- 20/6/2012 11:43:42 AM Subject: Re: HELMET v FRANKEL
Message: No Patsy - Tiger's post reeks of the truth, something you can't handle. We've all acknowledged what a great performance it was last night, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't point out some FACTS.
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