Racing and Sports now moderates the Talkback forum to ensure posting guidelines are adhered to.
The views expressed on Talkback are those of the writer and not necessarily those of Racing and Sports. You must be a registered user to write postings or send messages to other users. Click here to register.
Author: RockyReg Timestamp:- 24/2/2013 11:24:35 AM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: Whips,
''beaten and battered numerous times over''
Well obviously I would have to disagree with that. There has been some good debate I will admit, but none of its come from you which is hardly surprising considering you know Sweet FA anyway!
''Try hards comes to mind''
'Try little' comes to my mind when you are concerned.
''enjoying quality racing in a wonderful country.''
I'll happily admit that i do like to enjoy quality racing from all over the globe and yes there are many things about Aus racing that I think would be good over in the UK such as the industry being more geared to racing, good prize money etc. But there are areas in which Aus racing is fuct, like your penchant for not bothering with breeding anything decent that can run over sprint distances. But the country has found a niche, a way to excel on the world stage which is nice, I'm glad for you.
Author: Whips Timestamp:- 24/2/2013 12:04:07 AM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: The same old nonsense from the RockyReg and Patsy puppet show trying to talk up the farcical processions from the UK. The pair have been beaten and battered numerous times over the Frankel/Excelebration/MC circus debacle 5 fold yet still they are trying to convince everyone of make believe. Same old clinging onto worthless manufactured ratings that have more holes than swiss cheese.
Try hards comes to mind………….so does first class FAILURE.
Everyone has eyes and can see the desperation and the downhill spiral racing in the UK has taken. That’s why we get the freeloaders over here highjacking threads and our enjoying quality racing in a wonderful country.
''It's not a matter of adding up the number of Group One races that a horse has won to work out how good it is''
I'm glad you now realise that ratings is not a matter of how many G1s a horse has, yet people want to question Farhh's rating because he hasn't won a Group race.
''But the point that you are missing is that Excelebration doesn't have a higher rating than Moment Of Change because he's a better horse. He has a higher rating because he races in Europe and without that exhorbitant rating the house of cards that is Frankel's rating will collapse.
What you refuse to deal with is why the numerous milers that Australia has produced over the years who are better than Excelebration have much lower ratings than he does. There is no reason other than Euro-bias. This is why you won't deal with this question.''
Only time will tell on this, thats why MOC's rating has a 'p' next to it. The rest in just completely incorrect and reveals you own bias. What horses in your opinion since Timeform began rating Aus horses are better over a mile than Excelebration - and prove it from a ratings perspective?
Message: When Special ran her record as a 5YO in 1988 she carried 55.5kg under the WFA scale as it stood then. Last year Black Caviar possibly matched that time as a 5YO carrying 57kg, 3 pounds more under the old money.
On Saturday Black Caviar broke the record as a 6YO carrying a kilo more than Special did.
Author: Rex Timestamp:- 22/2/2013 3:32:07 PM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: Patsy,
MC is the highest rated sprinter in Europe. According to most experts her best trip is 1400m which means the uphill run over 1200m at Royal Ascot should play to her strengths. But this is not the point. Why on earth say a race is a disgrace that has in it G1 winners around the globe including the highest rated sprinter in the world and the highest rated sprinter from Europe- ridiculous statement. My point is you can build and put forward an argument without making such factually incorrect statements so why do it?
Message: The fact that there are quite a few opinions on which was her best performance says a bit. Not just what quality she's shown, but the regularity with which she's produced it.
Only a handful of horses in this nation's history have produced 130+ gallops. This horse must have done that on at least half a dozen, maybe even 10 occasions. Several more if she'd been let go.
Message: The fact that there are quite a few opinions on which was her best performance says a bit. Not just what quality she's shown, but the regularity with which she's produced it.
Only a handful of horses in this nation's history have produced 130+ gallops. This horse must have done that on at least half a dozen, maybe even 10 occasions. Several more if she'd been let go.
Message: Moonlight Cloud raced black caviar over 1200m Rex a distance clearly short of her best.
What has Farhh over a different distance got to do with anything.
Anyway im bored of this talking of hype hopefully all too gard lives up to the aussie hyperbole racing against B grade stayers in a G1 over 1400m....great wfa racing
Message: It's not a matter of adding up the number of Group One races that a horse has won to work out how good it is - in the childish manner that you seem to be doing with Excelebration and Moment Of Change. For one thing, Excelebration has contested more Group One races than Moment Of Change. But the point that you are missing is that Excelebration doesn't have a higher rating than Moment Of Change because he's a better horse. He has a higher rating because he races in Europe and without that exhorbitant rating the house of cards that is Frankel's rating will collapse. What you refuse to deal with is why the numerous milers that Australia has produced over the years who are better than Excelebration have much lower ratings than he does. There is no reason other than Euro-bias. This is why you won't deal with this question.
Author: maccamax Timestamp:- 22/2/2013 11:40:15 AM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: Patsy.. For some unexplainable reason people look upon distance races as the be all and end all of Racing . We all have differing opinions . To me , as a gambler my interests are mainly in Races below 1600 unless it is the top group events. I find the "sprinters" more reliable in most variables and I don't enjoy watching paint dry as stayers canter around in too many dull events. Like Ratings , it is all individual judgements so I stay where I can make a dollar.
Author: RockyReg Timestamp:- 22/2/2013 10:38:59 AM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: Iglesia,
''And we all know that if Excelebration were to come to Australia there'd probably be little between him and Moment Of Change - but in order to prop up Frankel's ludicrous rating we need to believe that Excelebration is a 133-rater.''
Do you not think that Excelebrations QE11 win on Champions Day was worthy of at least a 133 rating?
In all honesty had Excelebration been campaigned in Aus he would be fighting it out for top spot amongst your milers. In fact given your style of racing he would be even better over there.
I also think its a bit of a stretch at this stage to say that MOC is of equal ability to Excelebration. Granted he may prove otherwise in the future but you can't say that now.
Author: patsy fagan Timestamp:- 22/2/2013 10:36:53 AM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: Excelebration won multiple group 1s how can you compare what moment of change has done so far..
Has moc ever been beyond 1200m?
You dont half talk garbage sometimes..
You have greyhound like flat fast tracks with tight bends that lend itself to fast times so all this sectional garbage is fine in comparing your own horses but to compare it to european racing with cambers and hills and uphill finishes and long stamina sapping straights and slower ground is beyond daft.
Ive seen a moderate euro called glencadam gold run time..i saw media puzzle fly home ten seconds quicker than at the curragh..all meaningless
If you rely on times alone to make money youll go broke.. I was tipped a stayer the other day because he ran 1000m trial in a minute..came out over 1400 and came 6th..
Maybe hed beat frankel because he ran 1000m in 60 sec..maybe hed get beaten by 30
Author: MD Timestamp:- 22/2/2013 10:19:47 AM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: ROFLMAO at old Lackofa Challenge. Poor wee fella has been so battered by so many on here that he is now trying to piggyback off a bloke who has half a clue and can present a reasoned argument.
RR, believe me, you don't want this fickle, clueless peanut in your corner. One minute he'll be grovelling and fawning all over you, but if you dare disagree with him he'll come out swinging - not that he's ever landed anything mind. Even if he did happen to get lucky, it would be like being hit with a limp lettuce leaf.
Studying up on the AFL Lackofa Challenge? I'm sure you'll enlighten us with your 'wisdom' and give us all a good laugh again this season. A word of caution though, last year you were at comedic genius level so you'll have to try extra hard this year.
Author: Rex Timestamp:- 22/2/2013 10:19:02 AM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: Patsy,
Firstly-how was the Golden Jubilee a disgrace of a race? The 2nd horse came out and won 2 G1 races in Europe from her next 3 starts. In the process she defeated a horse you have wrapped in Farhh. She was vey unlucky in another when she featured in the stewards report.
Secondly- what did you make of Black Caviars performance in the GJ- was it to her best, maybe a pound or 2 below her best or maybe a 10-15 pound below her best. In your professional opinion how do you rate the run?. (heads up- former Australian horse Soul finished less than 2L behind- makes this process even easier to work out)
And thirdly- would it be fair to rate Frankels entire career on his performance to just hold off Zoffany?
This is were you go wrong- you may have a valid point, you may not but you argue your case with irrelevant material and in a way one would associate with someone much younger.
Author: tigerrish Timestamp:- 22/2/2013 9:58:32 AM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: Patsy,
What has the Jubilee field got to do with inflated ratings?
If TF rated her Jubilee win on par with any of her other big wins you'd find that I and others here wouldnt agree with it either. She certainly didnt perform anywhere near the level that she has in the last two Lightning Stakes, she was way below that in England.
Author: iglesia Timestamp:- 22/2/2013 8:51:42 AM Subject: Re: Black Caviar's Finest Victory
Message: I could have sworn, Patsy, that the Diamond Jubilee featured horses who had won Group One races in Australia, France, England, and Dubai. The Sussex Stakes, on the other hand, featured a horse who had won Group One races in, let's see, England!
And we all know that if Excelebration were to come to Australia there'd probably be little between him and Moment Of Change - but in order to prop up Frankel's ludicrous rating we need to believe that Excelebration is a 133-rater.
This site is maintained by Racing and Sports (®) Pty Ltd (ABN 093 360 108) ("R&S").
Copyright in all R&S materials is owned by Racing and Sports Pty Ltd (R&S).
Racing and Sports is a Registered Trademark.
R&S takes all care in the preparation of information appearing on the site, but accepts no responsibility nor warrants the accuracy of the information displayed.
This information is provided for entertainment purposes only. All information including race fields and TAB numbers should be checked with an official source.
(RAS-WWW01)
(ADS1)
Post a reply to this message.
