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 Author: occy
Timestamp:- 22/4/2003 10:18:06 AM
Subject: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
So all the Lonhro knockers have again come out of their little holes to put the champ down.
These group of people are the epitome of sadness and boredom. If you knew about racing you would realise that it was still a great run. Bogged down track, big weight comparitive to the field and a typical Dazzling Darren ride (sorry to offend all his christian disciples) The guy is an absolute poor rider. What a great position to have him in at the turn. He jumped well and just a little more forward riding and he was in a good spot.
I guess that you sad knockers think horses like Grand Armee will be a better horse than Lonhro is. Wake up. Smell the roses. All you Lonhro fans dont take this rubbish and stick up for this awesome horse. We will probably only get to see him four or five more times and lets not let these types ruin it. Racing without horses like him are what makes racing Not horses who dont even show up on wet tracks.
Go the little O.
Cheers
Occy.
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 Author: Pinkline Jones
Timestamp:- 26/4/2003 2:31:46 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Good on you Robbie.....it almost brings tears of joy to my eyes when I read posts actually making sense. Like you, I will defend the mighty mare vigorously....with or without sorbolene cream.
PINKLINE
Long Live the Queen of the Turf!
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 Author: robbie
Timestamp:- 26/4/2003 12:41:22 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Mr Still,
Thanks for the words. You have my intentions all wrapped up there.
On the objectiveness point. I trust that you BELIEVE you are unbiased, and you probably are the most even handed poster in this debate, but I believe that no human is unbiased. We are all products of a biased environment, our level of knowledge etc and it is impossible for us to be completely indifferent.
Nevertheless I respect both you and your contributions.
Spartacus,
Good to see that someone appreciates my posts.
RQ,
Don't change your line of argument now. In your first post you clearly accused me of bias (correct word is prejudice) AGAINST NORTHERLY not bias FOR SUNLINE. I readily admit the second point, but totally reject the former.
I was wrong for accusing you of parochialism on the other thread, but given the nature of that post you could forgive me for thinking you were a Melburnian.
Anyway this argument is getting a little tired, I don't know why you have selected me out of all the posters on this site to question on bias. Most of my posts present facts combined with analysis(biased in the Sunline debate perhaps) free to be picked apart, but atleast I don't present lies to try and strengthen my argument (which you obviosuly think is fine if they support Northerly's cause). If their is logic there, I do not see why you would not simply attack the truthfulness of the logic, rather than attacking the supposed bias behind the logic. I do not see why the veracity of the logic is weakened by the fact that I am biased. The facts still exist, and the logic is still sound. This is true for all editorials, feature articles etc. The writer is always biased. Its how he argues his bias that proves the quality of the article. Nevertheless, if you think my contributions are unworthy of your time because they are biased then it is your perrogative not to read them. However if you apply this same rule to all the posts on this site then you will not be spending very much time on here at all.
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Author: RQ
Timestamp:- 26/4/2003 11:36:43 AM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Gary
I have never taken offence at any post on this site, whatever the intention the words say it differently.
Robbie accused me of the most parochial post he had ever seen on R&S, which is patently wrong. I am highlighting his previously never admitted bias to Sunline.
But rereading his posts 'sunny' should have given it away.
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 Author: muirfield
Timestamp:- 26/4/2003 11:11:32 AM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
bmegee,
Where do you get this info from or is it just your belief?
My understanding is this:
Fred always thought Payne would be suited to Northerly but Oliver had the ride before the Spring of 02. Childs was obviously on Sunline so the choice in the Cox was between Payne and Oliver. Fred went with Payne because Oliver had committed to Don earlier in the Spring which had not impressed Fred.
After the Cox everyone was saying that Payne suits Northerly. Hard to argue.
Fred somehow let Childs know that Payne would keep the gig and that he was free to take the Fields ride.
Do you really think he choose Fields over the champ?
Northerly was never going to race in Sydney until the Ranvent so I don't see how the different states would have been a problem.
But if I'm wrong I'd appreciate you or anyone else letting me know because it could be an interesting three way go for the ride next Spring.
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 Author: Gary Still
Timestamp:- 26/4/2003 9:40:31 AM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
RQ,
Robbies opening line criticies a poster called "Northerly Fan" for his bias. Robbie then says "A true Northerly Fan through and through".
$
You have taken offence from this, yet I see reasons to soften your stance here.
$
1. He is addressing this post to "Northerly Fan", therefore his line "a true Northerly Fan through and through" really is a play on words.
$
2. Although the words can be construed to be derogatory, I have no doubt he is referring to extremists fans who trash Sunline.
$
3. In the context of what he has said overall in this thread, I see bias towards Sunline, no malice towards Northerly, and resentment towards Northerly Fans who bag Sunline. He also does not approve of Sunline fans who bag Northerly ("I can realise the absurdity that some posters go on about here in relation to Northerly.")
$
RQ, there are few things worse than being accused of something that you are not. I hope you can reflect and reconsider.
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 Author: bmegee
Timestamp:- 26/4/2003 8:17:37 AM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
No Muirfield-Childs was unbeaten on N.You think Fred chose Payne over Childs-I think not-Childs did not want to commit to riding N at all different venues Payne unfortunately did.
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Author: RQ
Timestamp:- 26/4/2003 1:42:11 AM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Robbie
What are we to presume you mean by your reply to Northerly Fan on 24th April. Your opening line is self explanatory I would have thought.
Dont be at all concerned if you dont respond to any of my posts, it wont worry me at all.
Gary
Be assured I wont be retracting my statements and you are entitled to your views, as am I.
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Author: muirfield
Timestamp:- 25/4/2003 7:24:08 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
bmegee,
Payne was chosen over Childs so I don't know what you are talking about when you mention loyalty?
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 Author: Bell Flight
Timestamp:- 25/4/2003 7:10:40 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Well, he should have lied because I reckon it has cost him the Spring rides on Northerly for sure. D Oliver, come on down!
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Author: bmegee
Timestamp:- 25/4/2003 6:08:56 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Greg Childs has publicly stated his love for Sunline and flew all over the world to ride her stating that it was a once in a lifetime opportunity for him -he loved her- simple as that-he cried when she retired-it is a great pity he did not display this loyalty when it came to N.
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Author: Spartacus
Timestamp:- 25/4/2003 5:56:22 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Robbie, I believe Northerly is a superior animal to Sunline...but only just. But that is not to detract from her at all, and once again, it is just my opinion.
I totally agree with what you've written here though. Well said!
cheers
Spartacus
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Author: Gary Still
Timestamp:- 25/4/2003 12:04:09 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
ROBBIE,
I am one who claims complete objectivity. I could be delusional but I am not lying. I am completely indifferent and impartial to these two horses. I enjoy open minded discussion and I NEVER talk out of my pocket.
$
I find Pinkline's bias sometimes embarassing and Speedy's arrogance always off-putting. But I deal with any discussion on the basis of analysis, without passion and with total objectivity. If I ever have a bias, I will qualify my discussion.
$
RQ,
You say Robbie has never tried to negate insults towards Northerly and that therefore demonstrates his bias against him.
$
He has a passion towards Sunline. He will fight off any derogatory comments towards her.
I don't think he has ANY obligation to do the same on behalf of Northerly, Lonhro, Defier nor any other horse for which he has no special attachment. He should NOT be grouped with the Northerly haters simply because he does not jump in to defend him. I personally think you should retract the remark, because implied bias is an easy accusation to make and often difficult to refute.
$
I have not formed this opinion of Robbie at all.
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Author: robbie
Timestamp:- 25/4/2003 10:29:52 AM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
RQ,
Please point me in the direction where I have said ALL Northerly fans bag Sunline. I would like to know, as I must have blocked it out if I have, and then I have other more serious issues to deal with. It is simply a matter of fact that most Sunline baggers are also Northerly fans, but this does not preclude their being cases where one type of person is seperate from the other, which I am sure there are quite a few.
And what exactly do you think my bias is? That I hate Northerly? LOL I have much better things to do with my time than to direct hatred towards a RACE HORSE. If anyone is biased here it is you. You are from Perth, obviously enamoured with the champ, and have in the last weeks insulted the the Horse of the Year Award and Sydney racing just because your champ hasn't won the first yet, nor been able to win at the second location. As far as I am concerned bias is fine, its what makes any sport interesting, but when someone starts attacking me for my biases while leaving a messy trail of bias themselves it seems to me a bit hypocritical.
I do not quite understand what you expect from me? To be a computer than spits out arguments without havign any human passion behind them? Not one person on this site is truly objective, not one person in the world is truly objective, anyone who says they are is delussional or lying.
Unless you are going to atleast attempt to answer or debate some of the prepositions put forward in my previous posts then I will not be answering any of your further posts on my intergrity. You skip around all my arguments and proceed on a tangent. Please tell me exactly where my logic is flawed and has been affected by my bias. If you read my posts carefully you will see that I usually come out swinging when people deliberately misrepresent the facts like "weakest field in living memory", "brilliant form before she met Northerly" etc. Better yet please point me to some posts where people have blatantly lied about Northerly and I will be quite happy to give them an earful. And I have only been on this board since the Spring of 2001, and by that time the anti-Sunline sentiment was definitely much stronger than the anti-northerly sentiment and it continues to be so today.
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 Author: Grandma Dawn
Timestamp:- 25/4/2003 9:54:30 AM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Why don't we get this argument settled once and for all. Somebody arrange for Greg Childs, who has ridden both horses, to state publicly and for the record, the best horse he has ridden. Don't you think that he would have a better idea then the rest of us?
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Author: RQ
Timestamp:- 25/4/2003 12:08:09 AM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Robbie
Your feigned indignation doesnt hide the fact that you really are not objective.
Take no solace in that I didnt follow up your previous posts, it wasnt worth it, but maybe I still can.
The question was simple in the interests of fairness where have you challenged anyone who has belittled the credentials of Northerly. Have you ever challenged the ravings of Pinkline Jones for example.
It is a gross generalisation to infer that all Northerly fans denigrate Sunline. If you have been a long time participant on this site you would know that Northerly has been subjected to ridicule from his first Australian Cup.
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Author: Gary Still
Timestamp:- 24/4/2003 10:57:46 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
Bell, Sunline' record at the mile 14 starts: 8 wins 4 seconds 1 3rd and 1 4th. It aint bad, but I don't know that it compares with 21 wins out of 23 starts for distances under a mile.
$
But if I accept that it IS in Sunline's territory, then with only a NOSTRIL margin at the finish, how can a Northerly fan possibly refer to one as a CHAMP and the other one as a CHUMP. A nostril has that much snout?!
$
I've seen so many one-eyed supporters at the footy, but I never knew they existed in such large numbers amongst the punting fraternity, until I came to this forum.
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Author: Bell Flight
Timestamp:- 24/4/2003 10:38:32 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
I'm a great fan of both horses but gee, if 1600m at Moonee Valley on a dead track isn't Sunline territory then you'd have to be standing in Claire Bird's bedroom to know what was!
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 Author: Silent Bob
Timestamp:- 24/4/2003 8:18:06 PM
Subject: Re: lonhro knockers crawl out of their dark holes
Message:
NortherlyFan, a couple of questions for you.
Who was the true champion of the turf Northerly beat?
And since when does running a strong 2000m determine that a horse deserves true champion status? Distance seems to be the core of the Sunline v Northerly debate, and is the biggest flaw in the 3-0 comparison. Two races where Northerly beat Sunline were over 2040m. This is Northerly’s pet distance, and the limit for Sunline. On top of this, one race was held with Northerly at his peak and Sunline at 7yo. The autumn just gone and the coming spring may put further light on this.
Northerly beat Sunline once over 1600m by a nose. This is not conclusive in any way.
While I am talking about distance, Northerly’s range is very narrow. 1800-2000m. He did win a Caulfield Cup over 2400m but questions can be raised over how that race was run. Given the lack of depth in Australian Stayers at the moment as well, which has been widely discussed on this site, further questions could be asked of the Caulfield Cup win.
Nothing can be taken away from Sunline’s achievements just because she was more comfortable in another distance range. At the end of Northerly’s career, both will be measured on what they have achieved. It is unfair to assess Sunline on her last campaign, just like it would be equally unfair to assess Northerly on his Sydney campaign. Both are champions of their day, and both for different reasons.
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