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 Author: Relic Hunter
Timestamp:- 4/4/2011 3:47:23 PM
Subject: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
Another season of jumps race begins. Two races are scheduled a total of 10 horses accept. Four in one race six in the second race. Three horses fail to finish their race and out of the three who failed to finish one is destroyed. Another great start to the jumps season.
Racing Victoria should just be done with jumps racing. For the amount of funding jumps racing gets, I can’t see Racing Victoria getting much revenue back from punting. Not to mention the risk to the horse and jockey.
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Author: Relic Hunter
Timestamp:- 9/4/2011 8:15:12 AM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
I find that hard to believe that 18,000 thoroughbred race horse a year are sent to the knackers. how did they get their facts from??? I think that the protesters are a little bit full of it.
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 Author: moonchase
Timestamp:- 8/4/2011 5:09:11 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
relic hunter
the same animal welfare groups against jumps racing claim 18,000 ex racehorses are killed at the knackery every year.
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Author: Relic Hunter
Timestamp:- 8/4/2011 2:35:01 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
Geelong I'm saying the number of flat horse put down wouldn't be that many at all after retirement or by accident at the race track.
The horses we have retired we have found all good homes. Also when I worked in office admin at a major Cranbourne stable we found homes fo all our hourse.
So what I am getting at is why increase the risk of injury or death by racing horses over the jumps???
jumps racing is dangerous for horses adn jockeys. There is bugger al betting turnover. So I would suggest get ride of it like most of the other staste have done.
This is only what I think, everyone is free to think what ever they want.
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 Author: geelong63
Timestamp:- 8/4/2011 10:44:44 AM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
Suggest you re-read the posts Relic. To make it simple - I'm suggesting that your position on jumping is somehwat hypocritical given the number of (flat) horses which are put down behind the scenes every year, primarily because they are slow/excess to requirements.
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Author: Relic Hunter
Timestamp:- 8/4/2011 7:38:20 AM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
Geelong, I don’t think it would be in the thousands. There just aren’t that many jumpers in Victoria and South Australia. I think you would find that only the bad natured ones might end up at the knackers. The good natured horses always find a home. What you are suggesting is that if jumps racing is gone the jumpers go to the knackers. Then what happens to all the retired flat racer????? I think you would find most of the time a horses find great home.
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Author: geelong63
Timestamp:- 7/4/2011 10:11:25 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
You clearly have no idea of the number of thoroughbreds which end up at the knackery. Neither do I but it is in the thousands from what I've read. Makes the argument about a few jumpers look threadbare. It's a matter of perception and balance.
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Author: Relic Hunter
Timestamp:- 7/4/2011 6:51:59 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
Saintly,
First of all there are not that many deaths on the flat. It happens to be a little bit of life. If you’re jumps racing your increasing the chance of the animal of being killed or injured.
Like I have said before we have had a weanling die running around the paddock. What is the chance of that?? If you go jumps racing you only increase the chances of injury of death or injury.
Next you can’t compare race drivers to people who drive on the road every day. The speeds are different and more people drive every day to race drivers.
Next would you like to be one of the race horses that die each year???????
The stables are short staffed in most cases so they can get jobs at other stables. Been there and done that I worked in a high profile trainers office.
You can take away the risks and make it less of a chance for injury or death. But really not too many people are interested in jumps racing anymore. You only have to look at the ownership and betting turn over. Hence the small fields.
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 Author: saintly1996
Timestamp:- 7/4/2011 4:45:37 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
Relic, you seem to be ok with a few deaths in flat racing, but not ok with some fatalities in jumps racing. Isn't that just a little bit hypocritical?
How many deaths does it take before it is too many on the flat?
Nobody wants to see fatalities in any sport, but it happens. It happens in Formula 1, it happens every year in the Paris/Dakkar rally, in the winter olympics an athlete lost his life last year. It is unfortunate but it part and parcel with dangerous sports.
Plenty of people die in car crashes, perhaps we should ban cars. Many have lost their lives in Air crashes, ban all air transport. I notice the motorbike death rate has gone up again this year, should ban those too.
IMO, this debate has more far reaching consequences than the deaths of a half dozen/dozen racehorses each year.
Think about the people who will lose their jobs in the industry. The people of W'Bool rely on the annual carnival to generate plenty of money into the town each year, some will lose their businesses and others lose jobs if the sport is canned altogether. There are plenty more examples of how the banning of jumps racing will impact not just the racing industry, but have consequences further afield.
Once the activists are successful in getting jumps racing banned, they will not put their feet up and think of it as a job well done. They will then target 2 year old racing, then racing as a whole (It is a fight they won't win, but they will try).
Those who have used the stats to suggest that jumps racing is unsafe and should be banned are fighting the fight for the abolition of racing as a whole. The same argument trotted out for the abolition of jumps racing will then be used against racing.
For those of you believing that the death toll is too high in jumps racing, are just turning a blind eye to deaths in flat racing because it suits you at this time.
Accept that fatalities do and will occur, in either aspect of racing (jumps and flat), but don't suggest one death toll is too high but the other is not.
You should be either for racing or against it, this jumps v flat racing racing casualty rate is just splitting hairs and hypocritical IMO.
Long live all aspects of racing (I do believe some things can be done to enhance the reputation of jumps racing, but that is another debate), and I am looking forward to having a punt on the Aintree Grand National this weekend, what do you all like in it?
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Author: Relic Hunter
Timestamp:- 7/4/2011 2:57:42 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
I'm not 100% sure of all the stats. I spoke to a leading Victorian jumps trainer a year or so ago. He said there were far more deaths and injuries now days because of the jumps and speeds that the horses go at. He said jumps racing needed less distance between jumps and more jumps to slow the horses down.
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Author: geelong63
Timestamp:- 7/4/2011 2:38:20 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
'The risk for a horse to be put down or injured is greatly increased by jumps racing.'
Anecdotally this seems to be the case but I'm interested to see your evidence. Got any numbers relating to non-life-threatening injuries suffered by 'flat' horses during training? Any idea of the numbers of slow thoroughbreds put down each year, including those which don't even make it to the races?
It is a complex issue no doubt and plenty of people are looking for answers. Is it partly the training/trainers? Are jumpers properly prepared? Are the obstacles and courses set properly? And ultimately of course - is this part of the industry viable in the longer term?
One thing is sure - most of the reaction is knee-jerk, and solely relates to the horrific spectacle of a horse falling and being euthenased.
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Author: Relic Hunter
Timestamp:- 7/4/2011 1:46:19 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
Khap, I'n not a fan of watching 4 or 6 horses race in one race. At the bool race 1, 4 horses 3 finish. race 2, 6 horses only 4 finish, one dead and two injured.
Wednesday at Sandown race 1, 4 horses all fisnsh last one 13.3 lengths of the winner. Race 2, 8 horses all finish last one 70 lengths off the winner. Not good racing to watch either.
Waste of time and money that could be better spent elsewhere in prize money.
The only two states that have jumps racing is South Australia and Victoria. I think there must be a reason why all the other states have banned it or stopped jumps racing
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 Author: Kapcher
Timestamp:- 7/4/2011 9:55:48 AM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
Jumps participants shoot themselves in the foot due to the fact that they are constantly hypocritical.
They tell you on the one hand that the purpose of jumps racing is to save horses from the dogger yet often, horses that were competitive or even won races on the flat in their previous five runs are competing in jumps races.
There are numerous examples of this.
One that sticks in my mind was a very handy flat horse named Hassle (Zabeel-Greeting) who ran second at Flemington behind Hissing Sid in an Open Handicap a few seasons ago.
He died at his very next start over the jumps.
To try and convince non-participants that the jumping industry is needed for this reason and then to watch horses who are still compeitive on the flat, die over the jumps is an awfully hard sell.
Hoofnote: I am a jumps supporter.
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 Author: quezacotl
Timestamp:- 7/4/2011 9:11:07 AM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
Hah..you are really one out of the box khap..
so jumps racing here is fantastic yet the flat they are all chaff munchers..?
ROFL...protestor...you really are a goose, if you took the time to read my post, I said they should do it properly or not bother at all, what they are doing down there is not jumps racing you pleb for brains.
Jumps racing is what they do at Cheltenam, or Aintree, hell even NZ and France.
3-4 horse's galloping flat chat around a tight turning bend and trying to skip over low lying feathers tied to a plastic strip, does not constitute jumps racing.
And BTW what is wrong with a cut and paste of a news snippet, so as one can make comments under it to make a point...ugghh nevermind,
Now pees off and stop stalking me, you give me the creeps.
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Author: Relic Hunter
Timestamp:- 7/4/2011 8:12:34 AM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
After reading the stewards report from the Warrnambool races, one horse was put down from the flat racing and one from the hurdles. Two others from the hurdles fell also and were injured. No other mention of injury to any other flat racers.
Point is it was only the first jumps meeting for the year. One hurdler dead two others fell and got injured. Yes one was put down from the flat racing but this does not happen, everyday and they race all year long. The risk for a horse to be put down or injured is greatly increased by jumps racing.
The turnover in betting would also suggest there is very little interest in jumps racing. So what does Racing Victoria have to gain from small fields no interest in betting???? Nothing at all it’s time to get rid of jumps racing now and forever.
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Author: Khaptingly
Timestamp:- 6/4/2011 11:00:55 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
"I also started a jumps thread so I expect there may be 3 or 4 of them by end of roll call.
news.."
news or not news, that is the question. No its not, Queza (Dooly) it is not news if you are reporting it here. Time we get it from you, its done the rounds for hours, and it is a fair chance we heard it the same time as you, hours before.
So jumps racing is off to a bad start but not as much as you in racing media. First of all you are reporting old material and you can't spell, (check the Spring-Autumn thread). I don't spell correctly either, but that is on purpose and I don't claim to be in the media. Perhaps you can get the bus to school with Manu.
Oh by the way, jumps racing rolls on and so it should, it is fantastic. Especially when protestors like you, have little or no impact.
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 Author: The Shu
Timestamp:- 6/4/2011 10:17:41 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
It takes an old hand to provide some old fashioned common sense.
It was once said
"As long as you have livestock you will also have dead stock"
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 Author: oldhand
Timestamp:- 6/4/2011 9:38:40 PM
Subject: Re: Another Hurdle For Jumps Racing
Message:
This post is fiction
Monday, 4 April 2011: 12 people died on our roads on the first day of the Victorian jumps season at Warrnambool today.
The fatality occurred when several vehicles driving at high speed collided head on, no one was euthanised by the official veterinary surgeon, they all died as the result of the collision
Two other vehicles were also involved in the crash but all participants escaped injury.
The future driving motor vehicles in Victoria will be reviewed at the end of next year an official was quoted as saying
Sid Down, the Warrnambool chief constable issued a brief statement after the tragedy.
“For as long as motor vehicles have been around there have been fatalities.
****Our objective is to reduce the fatalities and we have done a good job in trying to do that,” he said...say what now..??
Would someone please explain to me what would be considered doing a bad job, because I'm having a lot of trouble differentiating between the two.
The longer this nonsense goes on the worse it is going to end up, it will get all the wrong attention for doing all the wrong things.
Stubborn and careless are 2 words that come to mind for vehicle administrators.
Let it go you dogmatic fools before more serious incidents occurs.
Footnote : two horses were also killed at the Warrnambool race meeting.
Wow, then while we are at it, lets ban breathing as well!
Get a life , humans and animals die every day, so do insects, is that a reason to ban everything.
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