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 Author: geelong63
Timestamp:- 17/8/2011 10:01:45 PM
Subject: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
It appears that the animals at TVN are revolting against the burdon imposed by Tabcorp/Sky on the industry. Not before time some would say. Question is will 'industry control' deliver anything particularly useful for punters. It should but if the TVN website is any example I think punters are in for a long wait before we see real improvement. Anyone see any negs in an industry monopoly?
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(From a Herald-Sun report by Adrian Dunn)
TVN plans to renew its bid for the Tabcorp-owned Sky Channel. Chairman Harold Mitchell is adamant a deal can be done and said securing media rights was vital for the industry's future. He said it was a matter of not if, but when TVN would take ownership of Sky and forecast it would be sooner rather than later.
"Twice I have been to Tabcorp on behalf of the industry, and twice I had a deal, an absolute deal," Mitchell said. "In Australia we're quite good about the fact that we can shake hands and the deal is done. I had two of those and they (Tabcorp) backed out of them. There will not be a third. This time the industry will say we are the industry and we are doing it for ourselves and our own interests."
In March Tabcorp rejected a TVN-Telstra offer of $420 million for Sky but Mitchell said the next offer would prove telling for Tabcorp shareholders.
"It's absolutely definite that it will happen and this will be a consolidated industry in no time at all," Mitchell said.
While Tabcorp chief executive David Attenborough previously dismissed out of hand the notion that Tabcorp would ever sell Sky, Mitchell said this was not Attenborough's decision, but a decision for the board and shareholders.
Mitchell said racing had to take charge of its destiny and not allow a company whose primary interest was its shareholders to shape the industry's future. He said this was driven home to him after he was given a guided tour of the Sky control room by Elmer Funke Kupper, the then Tabcorp boss.
"His eyes lit up at the power. He said, 'This controls racing in this part of the world and it can move the start of a race by whatever time we want'," Mitchell said. "I thought, this is wrong. The people who should control racing is the industry."
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Author: ron turcotte
Timestamp:- 21/8/2011 8:05:15 PM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Bluefawn, I'm going to keep going until I get you to talk in English.
Please stop expressing yourself in sentences like "If you don't think.... blah blah blah....." I want to know what YOU think.
You've said clearly enough that the TAB pays commissions to corporates. As far as I know that is widely known. It would be a fairly rare business that did not offer better terms or some sort of a discount to its biggest volume customers.
Where specifically do you allege the commissions are being sourced from? Are you alleging that the commissions are being taken from the betting pool on the race? That is, effectively different punters are being paid different dividends? Is that specifically what you are saying?
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Author: Steven80
Timestamp:- 21/8/2011 4:04:13 PM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Commissions are a disgrace, all it does is rob the rank and file punter.
The sooner we get one national pool and stop kick back commissions the better.
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 Author: bluefawn
Timestamp:- 21/8/2011 2:13:23 PM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Corporates are being paid commissions to bet into TAB Pools.
If you don't think it is having an impact on wagering pools, think again.
Warwick Farm
Morning Line UNITAB
Sienna Red $4.20 $3.80
Alvitas $3.60 $2.50
Fieldmaster $3.40 $2.70
Bereft $2.50 $2.00
Winter King $3.50 $2.50
Detours $3.70 $3.20
Pinwheel $4.60 $3.10
Pane In The Glass $4.80 $3.10
Red Tracer $2.30 $1.90
Moonee Valley Morning Line UNITAB
Dance with her $2.70 $2.20
State Grade $4.20 $3.30
Irish Dream $3.30 $2.50
Mythical Spirit $4.60 $4.00
Savaging $3.80 $2.90
Hallowel Belle $2.60 $1.80
Kulgrinda $2.20 $1.70
December Draw $3.20 $2.00
If the horses are backed, the corporates lay off into the TAB Pools, and get paid commissions by the TAB, also reducing their payouts if you are betting with them.
If horses drift they just lay them on Betfair.
Never had it so good.
No control over the wagering environment.
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Author: ron turcotte
Timestamp:- 21/8/2011 12:06:01 PM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Come on Blue Fawn, don't be shy. Instead of writing cryptic questions like "where do you think those commissions come from??????", please tell us in plain English. You are the guy with all the answers it seems.
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Author: ron turcotte
Timestamp:- 20/8/2011 11:39:44 AM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Bluefawn,
I find your writing style a bit hard, with your thoughts couched in double and even triple negative question form. Can you please write directly and tell me exactly what you allege the TAB does after with dividends after the result is known.
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Author: bluefawn
Timestamp:- 19/8/2011 5:51:37 PM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
I am over it honestly.
If punters are so blinded they can't see the wood for the trees, I am not going to spell it out for you.
Ron,
I have have been posting on this website, as long, if not longer than you have.
Just haven't been posting.
If you think people are so dumb they can't work out a 14.5% takeout from a pool is the same no matter what amount of money is in the pool, then I don't know which one of us is not too bright?
There is nothing wrong with anyone betting into a pool with a 14.5% takeout, regardless of where the funds come from.
The issue is commissions being paid to corporates, and high rollers to do so.
Where do you think those commissions are coming from? Out of the TAB take (14.5%)???
That is the issue.
Tell me, why can you see TAB dividends come in close to $2 or more on the horse that wins time after time on the TAB?
Don't tell me? TVN Market mover?
You obviously think punters are a lot smarter than the posters on this website.
If you think all is above board and the TAB and corporates are doing everything in your best interests, then have I got a winning betting system for you!
PM me.
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Author: ron turcotte
Timestamp:- 19/8/2011 9:28:31 AM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Bluefawn, you have a lot to say for a new poster.
If I understand correctly, between all the invective, you think that corporates laying off or squaring exposures by betting into a TAB pool is a bad thing, and drives down dividends.
That can only be the case if their incremental money is on the winning horse. Any monies on horses that lose must by definition increase the dividend on the winner.
Your argument seems to come down to bigger pools meaning smaller dividends. Using your logic, then merging the super tab, tsp and unitab pools must drive down dividends.
A question. I'm not going to have a bet today, but I get bored in the middle of the day and at the last minute I have $5.000 at a provincial meeting on a horse ridden by my favorite jockey. It runs 5th. The winner, which was otherwise going to pay $6, instead pays $6.50 because of my last minute decision. Would you say that my last minute decision drove down dividends for the other punters in the pool?
The consequence of pool mingling, or corporates betting back into pools achieves is to drive markets towards equilibrium. For every runner whose price comes down, one or more others must drift longer - that is the nature of totalizator systems.
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Author: bluefawn
Timestamp:- 19/8/2011 6:36:01 AM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Sorry Geelong.
Misread your post.
Same question: Does UNITAB offer incentives to corporates or professionals to bet into its totalisator pool?
Do Tattsbet transfer investment from Tattsbet into UNITAB Pools, when they run a losing book on a race?
I would definitely like to be given 4 hours to look over their books.
It would make interesting reading.
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Author: bluefawn
Timestamp:- 19/8/2011 6:08:24 AM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Geelong,
Can you provide a link to the website or article you are refering?
Do SuperTAB offer any incentives to corporates or professionals to bet into its totalisator pool or fixed price book?
May just be a very cleverly worded statement that by indirect association makes it look like they are not doing these things.
Are they saying that SuperTAB do not have high roller rooms, and have never offered any incentives whatsoever to punters like Zeljko Ranogajec to bet into their pools on SuperTAB or any co-mingled pools, that used to exist such as ACT TAB?
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Author: geelong63
Timestamp:- 18/8/2011 7:24:38 PM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
FYI BlueFawn hthis was the Tatts response to a query about incentives from another website:
‘TattsBet does not incentivise corporates or professionals to bet into its totalisator pool or fixed price book.
TattsBet is designed to be a fun inexpensive recreational pastime for the punter who likes to have his or her $10 on their favorite horse, jockey or team and not a pursuer of corporates or professionals.'
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Author: bluefawn
Timestamp:- 18/8/2011 7:00:42 AM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Let's hope it does happen, but seriously, what is in it for TABCorp to sell SKY?
They will put forward the argument that they contribute 65% of the funding to the racing industry, so should have the vision rights.
They were placed in this position of power by goverment decisions to hand them this power, and now, as a private business, all business decisions are based on one outcome, profit for shareholders.
They forget to mention that they pay commissions to corporates and professionals to bet into TAB wagering pools to increase their profits, regardless of the fact that it is driving dividends down, to the detriment of the punter, as effectively, professionals and corporates are skimming profits off the top before you get paid.
Also, why still the rounding down to the nearest 10c in the days of digital currency.
I can bet on a sporting event and get $1.97, placing a bet, but I can't get paid in exactly the same way.
Racing is going to struggle in Australia unless it gets control of its vision rights.
TABCORP is dictating the terms to the racing industry, and it is destroying the wagering environment.
I am suprised how many punters don't even care less that this is happening.
End result, less wagering, less money going back into the industry in prizemoney.
The current situation is not tenable long term.
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 Author: quezacotl
Timestamp:- 18/8/2011 2:15:17 AM
Subject: Re: How Long For The Sky Pilot?
Message:
Yes I missed the 8pm show on TVN bloody traffic and rain...but did happen to catch some of the preview of it during the day.
This is very interesting and could herald a somewhat new age for thoroughbred vision.
He certainly is confident the sale will go down this next time...I guess shareholders in the current economic climate are all but flipping a coin here, but I can imagine the advice given to them by anyone with any sense would be to sell sell sell.
The impact on SKY and it's employee's is going to be an interesting one.
National tote and a fatter TVN..!!!
Is this the right future of Australian vision and wagering on our beloved thoroughbreds..?
Let's take a forum poll here.
(People in favor of the sale-cut and paste
"INFAVOUR"
(Those not in favor of SKY selling-cut and paste
"NOT IN FAVOR"
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