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 Author: marbine
Timestamp:- 10/11/2011 2:47:54 PM
Subject: Current World Rankings
Message:
Current World Rankings have Frankel @ 135, Black Caviar, Danedream & Cirrus Des Aigles @ 128, Canford Cliffs, Rewilding & Nathaniel @ 127, Dream Ahead, Excelebration & So You Think @ 126, Rocket Man, Twice Over & Workforce @ 125.
Any thoughts on these?
Is Frankel 7lbs better than Black Caviar? Is Cirrus Des Aigles as good as Black Caviar? Rocket Man only 1lb inferior to SYT? Excelebration - really??
I'll admit I'm not 100% all over how they reach these ratings. Anyone in the know?
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Author: MD
Timestamp:- 11/11/2011 1:01:01 PM
Subject: Re: Current World Rankings
Message:
"shows what relevance times are" That's right Patsy, in a race, and in assessing the comparative qualities of horses, what relevance would times be?! And you have the nerve to call others clueless! You just go on believing the hype champ and keep including horses who have beaten nothing, in slow time, in your list of best ever horses.
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Author: Weight Special
Timestamp:- 11/11/2011 12:15:31 PM
Subject: Re: Current World Rankings
Message:
"ran 0.7 seconds faster than standard"
ROFLMAO once again Patsy proves he has no idea about horse racing and times.
BC runs 3 seconds below standard race after race being eased up LOL
Frankel is a slow plodding hype horse.
European milers are terribly weak. Stracraft was 3rd best in Aust and became the best miler in Europe and ratings wise he's a couple of panels below BC.
All the best Euro horses run over 2000-2400m not 1600m.
Even clueless Patsy should know that.
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Author: patsy fagan
Timestamp:- 11/11/2011 9:37:12 AM
Subject: Re: Current World Rankings
Message:
Frankel's a miler.
BC a sprinter.
Weight Special is obviously beyond clueless
Frankels worst ever race was at Ascot when he took off too early and ran 0.7 seconds faster than standard..shows what relevance times are.
Be very interesting to see how Immortal Verse goes in the big mile race in japan against their best milers as he detroyed her.
That to me is a form guide.
And here we go again,the usual suspects to come out and bag a wonderful horse and when he breaks a course record they'll find another reason.
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Author: Weight Special
Timestamp:- 11/11/2011 9:17:44 AM
Subject: Re: Current World Rankings
Message:
Mares get a 2kg allowance.
BC is a higher rating horse fullstop without any allowance.
Frankel is the most overrated horse I've seen in my life.
BC is the fastest 1000-1200m horse I've seen in my life.
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Author: MD
Timestamp:- 11/11/2011 8:37:52 AM
Subject: Re: Current World Rankings
Message:
LOL - apparently if your a Euro 3yo you only have to beat your own age and/or lame horses, in plodding time, to be considered one of the greats.
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 Author: infidel
Timestamp:- 11/11/2011 8:26:10 AM
Subject: Re: Current World Rankings
Message:
One race wonder and fluke artist, Nathaniel- best horse in race died- better than 9 times G1 winner, SYT- only in Crazytown.
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Author: Weight Special
Timestamp:- 11/11/2011 1:21:43 AM
Subject: Re: Current World Rankings
Message:
Frankel can't even break 97 secs for 1600m. Even on slow UK tracks that's dismal.
BC is 5 lengths better than him on a ratings basis.
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Author: ron turcotte
Timestamp:- 11/11/2011 12:17:14 AM
Subject: Re: Current World Rankings
Message:
The thing to check, Marbine, is whether these rankings are like timeform in that the female rating is higher than it appears at face value because they get a weight allowance in races.
That is how it works in timeform. Mares in Austalia get a 2.5 kg allowance from males under WFA, so if a female and male are rated the same by timeform in Australia, it is saying that the female would beat the male in a race because they would have 2.5kgs less. Or, to put it another way, if timeform australia rated a male 2.5 kgs higher than a female, it is actually saying they would finish level in a race.
By way of example, More Joyous beat Whoby by just under a length in the Futurity this year. He was given a timeform rating of 126 and she was given 124 from that race. How does he get a higher rating than her given that she beat him? It's because her rating is 2 lbs lower, but she gets ~5 lbs at WFA, so on those ratings she is assessed as able to beat him by ~3 lbs, or just under a length, under race conditions.
I think that the international classifications are prepared the same way. So when you ask is it right that Cirrus De aigles should be rated the equal of BC, it's actually not saying that. It is saying that if they hypothetically met at WFA she would be a couple of lengths ahead of him.
Likewise, it is not saying that Frankel is 7 lbs better than BC. Adjusting for the 5 lb allowance, as explained, it is rating Frankel to be a bit more than half a length better in a race.
Cheers
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