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 Author: bettowin
Timestamp:- 26/6/2012 12:52:13 AM
Subject: Will England ever learn?
Message:
4-4-2 doesn't work in international football with your central midfielders old and slow Milner who played his best football through the middle on the right, a plan B of bringing Walcot on to play on the break, pleeease.Patsy would give his Kingdom for a centre forward who can hold the line.
At least Italy saved them from the Germans putting 15 past them.
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Author: Hands N Heels
Timestamp:- 3/7/2012 9:20:16 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
Precisely LC and you can be sure it was 100% intentionally placed by Fabregas.
There was a lot of press about their negative aspect in the opening rounds but apart from Portugal, I thought they did what they had to do. Let's not forget they drew Italy 1-1 in their group opener when they were unsurprisingly cagey. Five games later, when they faced the last stage of what they came to do, they wiped the floor with the same side. Its no mean feat carrying the WC tag and the heavy weight of expectation to not just win, but become the first to win 3 majors in succession, has to have been a significant impost and one that just got heavier. Everyone wants to knock these guys off now, if they didn't already.
There are many pundits who say that their style of play is changing the game, not just sides who try to emulate the tiki-taka style of Barcelona (Villareal, Lille, even Swansea, bless them), but how the opposition approaches that style. No possession = no opportunities = no goals and then its only a matter of time until Spain score. The hapless Dutch discovered this after 116 minutes of the biggest match of all in Jo'burg two years ago. Ironically, it is widely acknowledged that tiki-taka has its roots in Total Football, itself a Dutch creation, but that it relies on the ball rather than player movement and adaptability. Anyone who has ever been coached in the beautiful game will doubtless have that age-old saying still ringing in their ears: "let the ball do the work son!" Simple really, eh?
Part of the solution is of course knowing you have to adapt and change your style to combat theirs. The other part, the difficult one, is putting it in place so that it has the desired effect. On that count the run up to Brazil is going to be very interesting for more than the usual reasons. Anyone who has pretensions of beating these guys is going to have to come up with something out of the ordinary. If you're England, that will probably mean getting 11 men behind the ball, sitting as deep as possible and hoping ;) ....something extra ordinary!
Speaking of 2014, if La Roja are going to be under even more pressure in Brazil, imagine what it will be like for A Selecao?
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Author: MD
Timestamp:- 3/7/2012 11:20:33 AM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
Where do the learned ones on here have this Spanish team amongst the all time greats - pretty special unit and when they decide to turn it on like the pther night are a joy to watch.
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 Author: dalyco
Timestamp:- 2/7/2012 6:52:44 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
Great win by Spain - four great goals against another very good team.
the 2nd goal was the pick for me - a great touch running at full speed
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Author: Hands N Heels
Timestamp:- 29/6/2012 2:44:15 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
Good grief, Pirlo makes this lot look even more pedestrian. Balotelli - what level can this guy attain if he sorts out his attitude?
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Author: Hands N Heels
Timestamp:- 28/6/2012 9:12:21 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
Spoke too soon. What next? the uber aggressive German attack gets nullified by the meanest defence in international football....
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 Author: bettowin
Timestamp:- 27/6/2012 9:48:05 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
Hands Pirlo is older than Oldhand and England made him look like a kid because the midfield was over run, England need a centre forward who can hold the line so they can play 5 across the middle Rooney plays a roving roll but can play as a hold up.
In Rome atm and they have been showing the matches on big screens next to the Coliseum, great fun.
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Author: MD
Timestamp:- 27/6/2012 6:01:13 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
"I'm patriotic but I'm not blind!"
But if you don't stop it, you soon will be!
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 Author: YourMajesty
Timestamp:- 27/6/2012 2:38:32 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
That's why soccer is rubbish- so much genius on display, apparently (I didn't watch)- zero goals to show for it.
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Author: Hands N Heels
Timestamp:- 27/6/2012 12:05:02 AM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
England needs a Pirlo, plain and simple. He reads the game at a completely different level and this is extremely difficult to combat. Players are born with that gift, you can't coach it. Seeing the big pic and controlling the game from the centre of the park, not expending energy chasing the ball like England's midfielders who are more workman like then genius when playing at this level. The way he arrogantly took his spot kick too was a statement in itself. He is completely in control and he knows it. Platini had it, Beckenbauer had it, Neeskens too. Iniesta and Xavi might be counted but they're part of a team for the ages and they complement each other.
Stevie G is a legend (bless his heart) but players of his ilk (Lampard et al) are a rung below to be perfectly honest. Remains to be seen what Jack Wilshere becomes but there are high hopes in some quarters.
Regarding the match itself, England were not so much hopeless IMO, they were simply outplayed, there's a difference. Their first 30 minutes were actually inspired, they took the game to the Italians and they showed they could compete but then they got nervy and looked decidedly uncomfortable in that role. They went back to doing what they do when facing someone who can actually play, sitting deeper and deeper and avoiding risk. Also, their passing in the last 3rd of the pitch really let them down in the 2nd half and they began to look like brown's cows.
Pirlo was massive though. He enjoyed acres of space for most of the 2 hours and Rooney should take a hit for failing in his defensive duty. He has become lazy in that regard in recent times.
Italy deserve their chance but this is a German side who we saw in development stage 2 years ago. They're 30-40% better now and they haven't peaked yet. In typical German style, they'll be expecting and not hoping to win this Tourny now. In the meantime they should be beating comfortably, an Italian outfit with 2 days less rest off the back of a 2 hour saga.
Been a great championship though, hardly a dull game and goal average has been fantastic. Let's hope it doesn't get cagey at the business end.
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 Author: lostclarity
Timestamp:- 26/6/2012 5:51:05 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
England was outplayed; it should never have reached the shoot-out stage. I was surprised that the Italians had a mere 61% possession.
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Author: lostclarity
Timestamp:- 26/6/2012 5:51:03 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
England was outplayed; it should never have reached the shoot-out stage. I was surprised that the Italians had a mere 61% possession.
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Author: dalyco
Timestamp:- 26/6/2012 4:32:12 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
The formation doesn;t matter if you have the individuals and England just never have the flair players that are required at this level.
As usual I am on spain to win but Portigal are a real threat - I think Italy are no easy beats either. You can get $8 for a portugal - italy final - that is value
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Author: patsy fagan
Timestamp:- 26/6/2012 4:05:11 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
England were hopeless, agree completely.
Spain are in another league to anyone left in the competion and that shows how far behind England are as italy rang rings round them.
Pathetic and it stems from the coaching at an early age.
I'm patriotic but I'm not blind!
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Author: the urger
Timestamp:- 26/6/2012 2:08:49 PM
Subject: Re: Will England ever learn?
Message:
Agree there,Germany would have run rings around the slow English players.Hope it's a Spain V Germany final,easily the two best teams to watch play.
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