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 Author: JR
Timestamp:- 10/12/2002 11:33:03 AM
Subject: Hong Kong
Message:
With nothing much of interest on here at the moment, I'm interested to see what people fancy in HK on the weekend.
I'll throw one in, UK animal called Malhub in the sprint. Will go v.close on good ground and big overs at 9/1 at the moment.
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Author: Hmmm
Timestamp:- 18/12/2002 3:46:49 PM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
Grandera has raced 2 Japanese horses - Eishin Preston and Agnes Digital. Eishin Preston has beaten him convincingly twice, and Agnes Digital has beaten him convincingly once. I don't see any logic in calling Grandera the best horse in the world. He travels a lot - good on him. But he couldn't beat Northerly either. Sure, he beat a field of champions in the Singapore race.
Oh how could I forget - he is one of the highest rated horses in the world. He must have won a race in Europe!
Why race Northerly in a race like the Cox Plate? He could be one of the highest rated horses in the world if he won a Group 3 at Epsom.
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Author: biffo
Timestamp:- 17/12/2002 11:25:00 AM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
patsy, so, according to your views, the australians won the sprint in hong kong? i have news for you - they didn't, Hong Kong did. to more important things, Grandera is just too precious for mine. i accept that, as you say, he has to have everything his own way to win. just wonderful. the racetracks of the world are to be redesigned for him. or the Cox Plate is to be shifted to Ascot and the Arc to Leopardstown for him. where is the compulsion on the riders of the others to put on the race for him? are you saying that others are to sacrifice their chances to ensure that this nutter Arab-owned and trained, Irish bred, Italian ridden horse can win? put on "one goer" races to suit this temperamental nightmare? why? why was, in your view, Grandera the sole victim of jockey stupidity in Hong Kong? Eishin Preston and Sarafan ran in the same race, both like super fast pace and both were denied it. if Grandera were a victim of rider stupidity, then so were the other two and the likely hypothetical result, in the absence of putting on a "oner" for him, remains the same conjecture it was before it was run. by the way, is L. Dettori English, too? your countrymen seem to share some of Grandera's characteristics - it must be put on for them.
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 Author: patsy fagan
Timestamp:- 17/12/2002 1:28:25 AM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
The thing is Biffo Grandera was trained by James Fanshawe the UK trainer as a 2 and 3 yr old and was English Owned,The same with Sakhee he was trained by UK trainer John Dunlop as a 2 and 3 year old and came 2nd for Mr Dunlop in the English Derby before being transferred to Godolphin.These horses were english owned and trained but godolphin try to purchase anything over here that shows ability,owners can ask any price and godolphin pay it,money is no object.Imagine Godolphin paying for Northerly and Defier and me saying Australia has nothing to do with it because its arab owned and trained.
Patsy.
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 Author: JoeDirt
Timestamp:- 17/12/2002 12:50:49 AM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
Dettori's ride was a shocker. He had Grandera midfield and with a slow pace, he somehow managed to allow the horse to drift back to second-last on the turn, and still couldn't get him into the clear. Best jockey in the world - my ass! I'd have Oliver or Payne any day!
Cheers
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Author: biffo
Timestamp:- 16/12/2002 6:36:50 PM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
patsy. i certainly do not abscribe anything remotely approaching "world domination" to Northerly. nor do i credit it to Grandera. if the pace was bringing him undone yesterday, what would have been so terrible about leading - some chance is better than no chance. re Moonee Valley, i think you'd better find out a little more about the track and how races are run there - for example, there is a sharp rise from the 800 metres to the finish and the turn is beautifully cambered. horses can (and many do) sprint from the 800 metres. you must not simplistically believe that the straighty is short and judge accordingly. my reading is that Dettori ignored the characteristics of the track and the opposition in the Cox Plate. and what makes Grandera English? Irish bred, Arab owned and trained, Italian ridden, i believe.
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Author: patsy fagan
Timestamp:- 16/12/2002 3:17:26 PM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
The slow pace gave grandera no chance,he pulled his head off,aquaraliste ran well in a french 1-2.English representation was very weak this year grandera apart,noverre has been beaten heavily on recent starts and is on the decline and the even money quote was a joke,and irelands powerful aiden o brien stable had zero runners as did dermot weld.
Biffo Grandera finished a length off Northerly in another crawl and sprint,he has to have a fast pace and in the cox plate and in hk he got neither,if he gets a fast pace he is a totally different animal,if he doesnt he has no chance as no horse can pull and reef as he does and still perform at their best.Sadly he has never been labelled a superstar over here because of everything needing to be perfect for him,when it is he looks electric but when its not he looks quite average as in the plate and in hk.Hopefully australias belief of Northerlys world domination might be put on hold for a while,when grandera pulls and doesnt settle there are many more horses than just Northerly who can beat him.
Patsy.
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Author: Rambo
Timestamp:- 16/12/2002 12:08:54 PM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
In defence of Patsy, Grandera should have won with ease. The slow pace ruined any chance of a back marker storming home and Grandera was involved in a bumping duel with Indian Creek in the home strait. Just look at his last 100m after he got clear galloping room.
Interesting to hear Frankie Dettori again claim he should have won, and was on the best horse in the race. This time I happen to agree with him, but you have to make your own luck.
It just demonstrates the fickle nature of international horse racing and how it is impossible to compare different horses capabilities by running them in different countries. There are too many unpredictable factors to take in to account to be able to make any bold statements.
I am surprised that Godolphin doesn't consider Grandera a mile and a half horse. He may not have got the distance in the past, but the way he races I would think that he would relish the extra 400m.
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 Author: The Shu
Timestamp:- 16/12/2002 8:37:01 AM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
A trio is 1st, 2nd and 3rd in any order. The triple trio in HK is to pick the trio in three saelected races. It often jackpots to huge amounts
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Author: JR
Timestamp:- 16/12/2002 7:43:47 AM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
Nice work Patsy. I have copied your post into the lay of the day thread seeing that you picked two short priced favourites, neither of whom looked like winning.
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Author: biffo
Timestamp:- 16/12/2002 1:51:34 AM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
all of us wrong, wrong, wrong.
international racing is, surely, a supreme teeze.
i am very sorry for patsy - england, represented by all of europe (get that) failed to "beat" hong kong, melbourne, sydney, san francisco - or, for that matter, any other city it competed against.
but, thanks to patsy - i managed to lay both of his tips and finish in front, despite my own abysmal selections. it's easy, isn't it - just lay patsy's selections - at any old price.
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 Author: Pinkline Jones
Timestamp:- 14/12/2002 5:47:24 PM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong - Pinkine Tips...
Message:
HK SPRINT
Malhub
Falvelon (Reserve)
HK VASE
Ekraar
Idol (Reserve)
HK MILE
Tokai Point
Noverre (Reserve)
HK CUP
Eishin Preston
Grandera (Reserve)
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Author: zeditave
Timestamp:- 13/12/2002 1:06:14 AM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
look for other places to bet if you want to bet on these races - not just the totes! Places such as Eskander, IAS, Centrebet, CentreRacing, Betfair, William Hill, Ladbrokes, Sportingbet. Races like these have enormous local biases - so back the Aussie horses in the UK, the UK horses here and Grandera.... somewhere he hasn't run yet!
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Author: JoeDirt
Timestamp:- 13/12/2002 12:51:05 AM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
I saw that price about Grandera too. If Grandera is even money for the Cup, can someone please tell me how good Northerly is in comparison to the world. He must be the best in the world over the distance, because the only horses I've seen that have won over 2000m on turf in the world are Grandera and Eishen Preston.
I saw Eishen Preston is $5. He'd be a good bet on the way he smashed them last year in the mile and gave Universal Prince a bath in the QE II Cup.
Cheers
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Author: nias
Timestamp:- 12/12/2002 11:24:53 AM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
Grandera looks a special in the cup but is currently showing fixed odds of $1.90 and is likely to be $1.40 on the tote
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 Author: Speedy Gonzalez
Timestamp:- 11/12/2002 4:47:37 PM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
good luck to all.
I'm interested in Scenic Peak, as on his day he's just about the best 1400m horse in Aust (even allowing for defier). And we saw LS how good he can be at 1600m on a hard track.
Won't bet on him though, unless the odds are very good, too hard to line up the international horses.
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Author: JoeDirt
Timestamp:- 11/12/2002 4:28:24 PM
Subject: Re: Hong Kong
Message:
I have no doubt that Aussie sprinters are the best in the world. But I have my doubts that the two sent over are at their peak form. Falvelon - pipped on the line first up, had excuses second up and threw it away last start. All reports are he's going great guns, must be hard to beat though.
Mistegic - best sprinter last year. Struggled this time in. Blinkers may help. Mixed reports about the travel. Risky.
The form of the overseas brigade is very strong, but impossible to line up. Should be a great race.
Hopefully its a hat-trick for Falvelon and he gets his first G1 at a true sprinter's distance. He certainly seems to be working towards a win.
It'll be interesting to see how Scenic Peak runs too. He was so consistent in Melb, a good measuring stick.
PS. I reckon there will be alot of mug money added to the patriotic money cause of the one-dayer at the 'G. 20,000 punters will pack into the TABs and throw their money on the Aussie horses so if you fancy an international, good luck.
Cheers
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