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Forum - What A Coincidence

What A Coincidence

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Original Blog Post:

I was reading an article the other day about a horse in Puerto Rico who raced in the 1950's and the similarities between that horse and Winx is amazing.

The horse in Puerto Rico was named Camarero and had 54 consecutive victories. Like Winx, the horse was never taken anywhere to face proper competition choosing to just remain in its own confines.

The second similarity is that no one could be bothered to take a worthy contender to Puerto Rico to race this horse because it didn't warrant the effort and had no prestige.

The third similarity is that although Camarero had 54 consecutive victories, there is no record nor any information from any racing journalist or fan, as to any reasonably talented opposition that he ever encountered. Reminds me of the responses (or lack thereof) of this forum.

Talk about "back to the future"!

 
Author: gladys
Subject: What A Coincidence

Time: 1/10/2018 9:08:44 AM
 
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Author: Khaptingly
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 20/10/2018 6:38:49 AM

Blog Reply:

Here we go, Rex is back with his name calling. When all else fails in your brain, just bring out the name calling.

What a coincidence Rex posts around the time the Aussie test cricket team lose by 373 runs. Thats right 373. Only last week we heard the excitement of how this team found something to force a draw. That was a flash in the pan as the smart observers knew. Still, for the Aussies a draw would be taken as a win.

 
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Author: Rex
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 20/10/2018 1:44:16 AM

Blog Reply:

What was the highest rated horse Camerero ever beat Bop Bag?

No, didn't think so

You're an idiot

 
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Author: theking
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 17/10/2018 10:28:10 PM

Blog Reply:

Gladys,

You said in part: "I do not know what you are talking about King"

Well if you really are this thick I will reiterate what I am talking about.

After reading this I posted:

Gladys,
Do you really think that a horse who only ever won the equivalent at the time of one Listed hcp sprint race over 1300m, one G2 WFA sprint race over 1100m and one hcp race over 1100m in "OPEN COMPANY" should be included in the following statement?

And if so given his record in OPEN COMPANY SPRINTS how do you "JUSTIFY" this statement?

PLEASE EXPLAIN.

"What do you think Luskin Star, Manikato, Placid Ark or Takeover Target would have done to these B graders. They would have all been rounded up by the turn and then streeted."

"NOTE - The horse to which I refer to in FACT "NEVER" won a STAKES race over 1200m in OPEN COMPANY."

That's right Gladys "ONE" of your nominated hypothetical Everest winners "NEVER" won a STAKES race over 1200m in OPEN COMPANY."

If you cannot work out to which horse out of your four nominated horses that I refer to then you are even lamer than I first thought.

Come on Gladys, this is a polite request please EXPLAIN to us your reasoning for nominating a horse to hypothetically win the 2018 Everest even though history tells us that it "NEVER" won a STAKES race over 1200m in OPEN COMPANY" and was in FACT known to be an absolute duffer in the wet.

 
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Author: theking
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 17/10/2018 5:01:46 PM

Blog Reply:


So now when it suits you want to start placing some credence & emphasis on TIMES?

Gladys YOU are a joke & best described as the epitome of the eternal HYPOCRITE!

Gladys it is obvious to everybody on here that you are a person who acts in CONTRADICTION to your stated beliefs or feelings.




 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 17/10/2018 9:52:08 AM

Blog Reply:

I do not have a clue what you are talking about King and I doubt whether you do.

Whilst you are blathering on consider this. Boss Lane, Tactical Advantage, Clearly Innocent, Jungle Edge and Pierata all ran faster time in the earlier race over the same distance than the winner of the Everest.

Would you like the name of another twenty horses that would have towelled that field?

 
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Author: theking
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 17/10/2018 1:07:17 AM

Blog Reply:

Gladys,

You are starting to sound like a broken record.

However re your: "Tell me, in those magnificent victories and placings, who did she beat? How did she go against First Seal, Trust in a Gust and Fenway."

Ihings are more than a little one sided here Gladys, you request answers & I have been giving them to you but for some reason or other, no matter how politely I ask for one simple explanation, you do not give me a response.

In any case I am more than happy to answer more of your questions just as soon as you EXPLAIN your inane reasoning behind selecting your ridiculous hypothetical EVEREST winner.

I have ever so politely requested this explanation from you on many occasions now, but thus far I have not received a response.

Why?

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 16/10/2018 9:25:11 AM

Blog Reply:

Thank you for your kind words The King.

Tell me, in those magnificent victories and placings, who did she beat?

How did she go against First Seal, Trust in a Gust and Fenway.

 
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Author: theking
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 15/10/2018 11:51:27 PM

Blog Reply:

Gladys, you asked: "Tell me, how did Winx go as a three year old?"

What the? Have you been living under a rock?
OR Is it that you are some sort of a troglodyte? Even the most recent young rookie presenting them self at the local TAB for the first time would just about be able to answer this very basic question. Dare I say even blind Freddy would have a pretty fair knowledge of this one.

In any case it does not surprise me that you do not have any knowledge of this one and or that you do not have the ability to look up the answer yourself. Perhaps you should enroll yourself in one of those oh so basic computer courses for seniors.

But as you have freely admitted that you have no idea about what you are talking about I will take pity on you and answer your question for you.

WINX's three year old record:

1. Group placed seven times out ten group race starts.

2. Four Group race wins from ten Group race starts.

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 15/10/2018 9:30:08 AM

Blog Reply:

Perhaps he came to Australia because he knew he could not beat the ones at home.

Tell me, how did Winx go as a three year old?

Perhaps she is the only one who is allowed to improve.

 
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Author: theking
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 15/10/2018 12:18:10 AM

Blog Reply:

Gladys, re your comments about Highland Reel.

You said: "He was a pretty raw three year old when he ran in the Cox Plate."

This horse had 8 starts as 3yo for two G1 wins, one G1 2nd, one G3 win and one 3rd in our G1 Cox Plate. By the time that he ran in the Cox Plate he already had a 2nd in a G1, a 1st in a G3 and a 1st in a G1 under his belt.

Hardly what I would call a raw 3yo particularly in the light that he was in FACT 3 years & 8 months old when he ran in the Cox Plate.

And as such he was required to carry 56kg as opposed to our Southern Hemisphere 3yo colts and geldings who would be required to carry only 49.5 kg.

Raw 3yo???

He certainly did NOT race like a raw 3yo in the Cox Plate he did in fact race like a well seasoned & very tractable racehorse.

Yeah, I can just see it now A P Obrien saying to Ryan we have just won the G1 Secretariat Stakes with Highland Reel, I know he's a pretty raw 3yo but what the hell, raw as he is, lets take a punt & take him down under & knock off one of their biggest races.

Are you with me Ryan?

To be sure, to be sure Mr. Obrien, what ever you say, but do you really think its worth travelling all that way down under with such a RAW brute of a horse? What hope would we have with such a RAW 3yo as this.

Yeah, as if A P Obrien is a mug, I doubt he would ever entertain the idea of travelling a RAW 3yo hallway around the world to run in one of Australia's most prestigious races.



 
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Author: Mantank
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 14/10/2018 1:47:40 PM

Blog Reply:

Regarded as B graders?

Benbatl is G1 winner of $6m across 3 countries and the second highest rated horse to come to Australia. The type you bring for a WFA event against the worlds highest rated horse.

Yucatan is a lightly raced horse with relatively little exposed form. The type you here to get in with a light weight for the Cups. He may well be ca grader - doubt it based on yesterday - but there is little basis for stating that the case now.

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 14/10/2018 10:22:47 AM

Blog Reply:

I couldn't help but notice the imports running yesterday at Caulfield, especially Benbatl and Yucatan.

These two, whilst very good horses, are regarded as B graders overseas yet they ran the insides out of our no hopers.

It makes it pretty easy to understand why the connections of Winx were never going to travel. Much easier to stay at home, beat up duds and collect the prizemoney.

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 13/10/2018 10:43:35 AM

Blog Reply:

She was the best of her era, Tufnel.

Winx is the best of her era.

 
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Author: nigeltufnel
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 12/10/2018 2:50:49 PM

Blog Reply:

Logic 101: I chose Phar Lap and Tulloch because they were so dominant in their respective eras. Could it be that their brilliance made everything else look ordinary?

I see we’re dragging up First Seal, Fenway et al as partial evidence Winx is overrated. Just as relevant as what Vo Rogue did before he ever ran in Group One; or what Kingston Town did before he was gelded.

Looks like you have to be unbeaten your whole career to deserve the tag.

Oh, hang on, they reckon Black Caviar was over rated too. She doesn’t deserve the tag because she beat nothing.

Have I got that right?

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 12/10/2018 2:13:50 PM

Blog Reply:

He was a pretty raw three year old when he ran in the Cox Plate. He suffered a heap of interference when Criterion was nearly put over the running rail.

He certainly went on to be a very good horse. But like Winx, his three year old days were not as good as his later years.

Fenway, Trust in a Gust and First Seal all towelled Winx in her three year old year.

 
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Author: theking
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 12/10/2018 10:02:26 AM

Blog Reply:

Gladys, you asked "who was the best horse that WINX has beaten?"

Answer - In my humble opinion it may well be Highland Reel. Why? Take a look at his international success, there have not been too many that have actually proved their ability GLOBALLY in the manner that HIGHLAND REEL did.

How did this GLOBAL SUPERSTAR fair against Winx?

HIGHLAND REEL (in Great Britain, Ireland, France, U.S.A., Australia, Hong Kong, U.A.E.)


Age runs 1st   2nd   3rd Earnings

2   3     2     1     -    A$100,314
3   8     3     1     1    A$2,943,817
4   9     2     4     -    A$7,232,083
5   7     3     -     2    A$3,675,004
    27    10     6     3    A$13,951,220


At 2 :
Goodwood Vintage S., Gr.2 (7f beating Tupi and Room Key)

Gowran Park Irish Stallion Farms 2YO Maiden S. (1m)


At 3 :
Arlington Park Secretariat S., Gr.1 (1¼m beating Closing Bell and Force the Pass)

HKJC Longines Hong Kong Vase, Gr.1 (2400m beating Flintshire and Dariyan)

Goodwood Gordon S., Gr.3 (1½m beating Scottish and California Disegno)

2d Chantilly Prix du Jockey Club, Gr.1 (2100m to New Bay and beating War Dispatch)

3d MVRC WS Cox P., Gr.1 (2040m to WWINX and Criterion)


At 4 :
Breeders' Cup Turf, Gr.1 (1½m beating Flintshire and Found)

Ascot King George VI & Queen Elizabeth S., Gr.1 (1½m beating Wings of Desire and Dartmouth)

2d Chantilly Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe, Gr.1 (2400m to Found and beating Order of St George)

York International S., Gr.1 (10½f to Postponed and beating Mutakayyef)

HKJC Longines Hong Kong Vase, Gr.1 (2400m to Satono Crown and beating One Foot in Heaven)

Royal Ascot Hardwicke S., Gr.2 (1½m to Dartmouth and beating Almodovar)

4th Meydan Dubai Sheema Classic, Gr.1 (2400m)


At 5 :
Epsom Coronation Cup, Gr.1 (1½m beating Frontiersman and Hawkbill)

Royal Ascot Prince of Wales's S., Gr.1 (1¼m beating Decorated Knight and Ulysses)

HKJC Longines Hong Kong Vase, Gr.1 (2400m beating Talismanic and Tosen Basil)

3d Breeders' Cup Turf, Gr.1 (1½m to Talismanic and Beach Patrol)

Ascot Champion S., Gr.1 (1¼m to Cracksman and Poet's Word)

4th Ascot King George VI & Queen Elizabeth S., Gr.1 (1½m)


Champion Older Horse in Ireland in 2016 (Long). Champion Older Male in Ireland in 2017 (Int.). Joint Champion Older Male in Ireland in 2017 (Long).


World Thoroughbred Rankings:

121 (in 2015)
123 (in 2016)
123 (in 2017).

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 12/10/2018 9:04:06 AM

Blog Reply:

Just brilliant Tufnel!

Phar Lap and Tulloch do not deserve champion status.

Perhaps you could give us your thoughts on why Bradman was a dud.

 
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Author: nigeltufnel
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 11/10/2018 5:57:43 PM

Blog Reply:

Which champions did Phar Lap beat?

Which champions did Tulloch beat?

 
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Author: gladys
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 11/10/2018 9:40:14 AM

Blog Reply:

I remember seeing Super Impose win two Epsoms and two Doncasters with probably four of the most devastating sprints over the final 300 metres.

He could never win until Vo Rogue retired as he had the sprint sucked out of him in the attempt of just trying to keep up. Not my words, his trainer's words.

He did not run against stable mates and one paced horses, he ran against wfa horses in handicaps and wfa races.

Once again, who is the best horse Winx has beaten, who are the good horses that are hiding and who is the next best wfa horse in Australia?

 
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Author: nigeltufnel
Subject: Re: What A Coincidence

Time: 10/10/2018 9:56:24 PM

Blog Reply:

Thanks Todman for highlighting how incredible her last 600m in particular was on Saturday. It was a pleasure to be there. What a performance. More history awaits.

One question: is Usain Bolt less deserving of the accolades he received for the medals he won and the incredible times he ran because of the athletes he defeated?

Of course not.

I had a quick look around the mounting yard perimeter as they came back to scale after the Turnbull to see and hear if there were any dissenting voices. I wondered if any ignorant opinionated spud armchair expert would be brave enough to show his face in public and air views including ‘Overrated’ and ‘Beat nothing’ from over the fence.

Of course not. That would require intestinal fortitude and the courage of one’s convictions.

Much easier and safer from behind a desk.

N.T.

....and it’s very very important we all know Vo Rogue won some ordinary races in Queensland.

 
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