2022 AUSTRALIAN CUP winner


Interested to know peoples opinions.

Who would win an hypothetical AUSTRALIAN CUP out of INCENTIVISE and ZAAKI?

Or is there any other horse currently racing that you believe would beat both of these nominated horses?

You need to Login to Post a Answer in the Forum

Hollow Dollar 

Raced on pace threw her head about early.Had her chance finished about 6th about three off them.I’ll keep an eye on her.

Gai trained winner.Gai trained Grandma.

Gerry other horse nearly went over the fence.

Hollow Dollar rolls into Goulburn on Friday.

Very familiar colours.

Loved watching Grandma. test 2

Lady in Green and Yellow defeated Lady in Red.

Big finish from winner.

Gold Coast beckons them.

Sorry i’m borrowing your thread King.

See if the young lady in Red can beat the boys.

From a U.S. family.

Hollow Dollar.

Not a bad run in a strong Maiden.7th about 3 lengths off them.

Be looking for her at the Provincials Just before Christmas.

Hollow Dollar.

Will be watching this one. 

Grandma was a lovely horse.

Very nice family.




I understand Gladys.I let things get to me.My own fault.

I’m sorry to hear about your mother.Old age is a nightmare for some.

The other day a fellow well into his seventies had a heart attack and passed.

I was discussing this with another gent and we spoke about how well he had lived his life and as he had passed from a heart attack he would never suffer from any cancers or dementias or any tortuous diseases.

Some people live well into their 90’s and have dodged all sorts of diseases and then get hit by a car.

I feel for the nurses and carers as every single resident in the Nursing  Home will pass.

Anyway let’s get back to the horses.


I am sorry to hear that Branded. I have that issue with my mother at present and know what you are going through.

Unfortunately you copped a bit of flak aimed at that imbecile Gary or King or whatever name he is using this week.

I apologise for any hurt I caused you.


Thanks for your support Oldman.

Gee you have had a bit of luck.

By the way,am I on that Christmas List.

If So Shirt Size xxLarge

Slacks 107.

If your thinking dental.Top and bottom dentures would be appreciated.

Raconteur ran about 5th in race 8 in Japan.

From a top family too.

Great racing there today.

Hi Branded,

My thoughts are with you, I do enjoy reading your posts.

I am a $10 punter,I mostly lose but sometimes I win huge which makes up for the loses. I too, come in for the fun, however, with the kids married with their own families, I am blessed to still have the company, love and friendship of my my wife.While she has no interest in gambling, she laughs and joins in on my fortunes and misfortunes.As an example, I recently attempted a F4 bet for $10 but decided to change it manually to $12 for a 75% stake. instead, I inadvertently changed the bet to $120 and hit submit. The F4 won and pad $260 and I collected an arsey $2600. My wife had a good laugh and we decided the winnings would be spent on Christmas presents for the kids and grand-kids. Almost immediately after that decision, I picked up another F4 for another $2200. Karma?

I mostly ignore the constant and "same-all" posts from a couple of posters, you should too, I take delight in little things on here, like dhaulgiri's Groupies selections winning. She's maintained the Groupies competition so  well that I find myself willing her selections to win over mine..Also, the Ruffies posts and I imagine the delight on their faces when a selection wins at a huge odds.

Keep your chin up and continue doing what you enjoy doing, I'll continue follow your posts.

I visit my wife in the Nursing home every day.With Covid they allow me 2 hours every day.I give her lunch every day.She has been there for over 2 years and I have missed four days in that time.Apart from Lockdowns.She has been bed bound for the entire time.She has no speech and cannot communicate with anyone once I go home.She has to be changed several times a day and she has bruises on her arms because she fights with the nurses every time.She cannot except the humiliation of being changed.It breaks my heart to see her like this.Some people say  to me you should get on with your life.I say I am getting on with my life and she’s coming with me.Sometimes I have jumped in the car late at night and driven past the Nursing Home.I know she cannot see me but maybe she can sense me being close.

I come in here and try and have a bit of fun for some release.If you look at my posts they are aimed at some fun.I know some are over the top but mainly they are fun for me.

I’m all for fun Gladys nothing else.I don’t have time to be angry.Maybe when she passes I may be angry.I don’t know.

Please realise i’m her for mainly fun.

I imagine it would be totally futile for anyone to either  tell or discuss anything with you Branded or that other boring clown Gary and his aliases unless you were a brilliant psychiatrist with years of proficiency in dealing with drivel and delusions.

Even then I think they would struggle.

Will be tuning into Saint Cloud tonight to watch one who is pretty consistent.

No betting from me. Just like to watch. He’s no champ but tries hard.

If anyone is still awake when the race is on, see if you know which one.

His mum won the Hungarian Oaks and Guineas. She ran second in the Swiss Derby and 1000 Guineas and 3rd in the Cena Arvy in Slovakia.

The straight at Saint Cloud is pretty tough, so sit back and enjoy.

I bet Gladys can tell me all about the Cena Arvy.

Raconteur won the very first Winterbottom Stakes. 

There is a Raconteur Stakes run annually either June or July in his memory.

When he won the Villiers I believe he was trained by Phil Allotta and was ridden by Todmans great jockey Neville Sellwood.

Which gives me the opportunity to relate a Hamlet snippet.

Hamlet was often thinking about suicide.

One day he thought if you do commit suicide maybe you dream in death and you still have the same problems.

It is something to ponder !!!


By Brad Waters
02:40am • 23 November 2021



Champion trainer Chris Waller never tested Cox Plate legend Winx overseas but Melbourne Cup winner Verry Elleegant is set to take on the world’s best stayers next year.

Verry Elleegant was a dominant Melbourne Cup winner carrying 57kg at Flemington earlier this month but the Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe in France could be her spring target in 2022.

Waller told the respected UK racing show Luck On Sunday the 10-time Group 1 winner could be off to Europe after The Championships in Sydney next autumn.

Waller said the timing was now right to test the six-year-old overseas.

“The owners raised the idea last year and I wasn’t quite as keen, but I think now is a good time to do it,” he said.

“The beauty of Verry Elleegant is she‘s adaptable over all distances.

“She’s won a Group One race over 1400m through to 3200m now and she’s won in all conditions.

“A very firm surface is no problem and a very wet surface, she is almost as effective.

“To me that‘s the right type of horse to travel.”

Waller also flagged the likelihood of Everest winner Nature Strip and brilliant Coolmore Stud Stakes winner Home Affairs joining Very Elleegant on her overseas travels.

Winterbottom Stakes

Boy oh boy what a great race horse and stallion (sired 17 Stakes winners)

Check out his Stakes wins:

Raconteur (AUS) 1949
 Aust.Id.: 200648 chestnut stallion Date of Birth: 00/00/1949 
  17 stakeswinners & 31 stakeswins  
 by Remarc (AUS) 1935  
 from Jolly Imp (AUS) 1935    
Stakes or Principal Race Wins
Year Race Name Status Distance
1952 WATC Belgravia Stakes Pr 7F
1952 WATC Strickland Stakes Pr 9F
1952 WATC West Australian Guineas Pr 8F
1952 WATC West. Australian Derby Pr 12F
1952 WATC Winterbottom Stakes Pr 7F
1953 AJC Villiers Stakes Pr 8F
1953 WATC Perth Cup Pr 16F
1955 VRC C.M. Lloyd Stakes Pr 8F

Villiers winner Raconteur was a top horse.

He won very nice races in several states.

Especially in the west.

This week-end ring any bells ?

Gees, right on cue King Gazza, funny about that isn't it ?????

EAT SH!T Gullible Glad.

Now you can can BUZZZZZ off and join the other BLOWIES suckering down on the putrid rotten red herring placed strategically atop of the KING's garbage bin for you and your kind.


King Gary, I mean Gary King, pssssst, hey keep it a secret about the aliases, we don't want that dimwit Gladys actually catching on do we? 


As you said it won't be "funny!!!" anymore.

Thanks, you are Still the King, cheers from the other Gary


Hey King. As one of your alleged aliases, I have to respond. That was funny!!!

Hi Gladys.

Gotcha, Gladys, derrrrrr, even a dope like you must now realise that you have taken the hook line and sinker in my little ruse or have you still not noticed that NONE of my aliases have not made any comment.

So Gladys unless you have still not realised, I am controlling not only my aliases but also you dopey drawers.

You have taken the bait!

Think about it, I put up a massive heap of SH!T hypothetical post and the only one I attract for any comment whatsoever is an insect like you who can not help herself being attracted to a big pile of smelly steaming dung.

I reiterate, notice that I have not allowed any of my aliases to comment as I have been waiting for and been successful in attracting the big fat BLOWFLY like you to swoop in and eat SH!T.

I notice nobody is interested in giving you an opinion on your stupid hypothetical Gaz.

The deafening silence is a pretty reasonable gauge as to the level of interest your moronic posts attract.


When all else fails, read the instructions:

In case you missed it I wrote:
"Interested to know people's opinions."  smiley

Now I know that you don't have the mental capacity to formulate a hypothetical opinion in regard to the possible abilities of one horse compared to another and I feel that there is a number of reasons for this which are stated as follows:

1. You have lost all confidence in yourself to comment on the possible HYPOTHETICAL comparable abilities of horses as you are shivering in fear thinking that you just might get it wrong yet again like you did when you were continually laying WINX.

What do they say about a person doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result? (Answer = first sign of madness)

2. Or perhaps it is simply that you don't know the meaning of the word HYPOTHETICAL.

In any case, given that you got things so wrong about WINX I doubt that anybody gives a BUG6ER about your uneducated, less than novice level racing opinions, even if you found the courage to post them. (which is probably why you don't) crying


What a total load of tripe Gaz.

Do you just post these hypothetical scenarios to see your name printed or is it just because you are a total moron?


Todman, I am not discounting your opinions as I agree with much of what you say 


I am not looking for a blue here as that is not my intention BUT you seem to have missed the point that my question was only ever on an "HYPOTHETICAL"  basis ie. IF? they "HYPOTHETICALLY" met in an Australian Cup. 

That is "HYPOTHETICALLY" 2000m WFA at one of the best tracks in the land NOT whether they would actually ever meet in the nominated race.

I reiterate I was NOT asking if they were heading to this race or NOT.

In any case here's another "HYPOTHETICAL" question for you and anybody else who is wanting to give an opinion.

Who would do best in an "HYPOTHETICAL" Arc de Triomphe on a soft track, Verry Elligant or Incentivise?


Anamoe would probably be my tip outside of Incentivise, but like Incentivise, he won't contest the Australian Cup, IMO, so I really dismissed him as I should have done with Incentivise.

There are more attractive races for Anamoe in Sydney, especially the QE Stakes


A well thought out and presented response to my questions.

But tell me this, if you (rightly so) give State of Rest a rest a good chance of winning, would you not also give Anamoe an equal chance of winning?

My heart says Incentivise but I really need to see him reproduce his 2021 form after his tuff MC run - Zaaki's last 2 runs were also a little below what I perceive to be his best form.

If they are both at their top - I over Z

As for any other horse, Hitotsu appears to be a rising star, but VRC Derby winners don't have a great track record plus he will most likely be aimed at Sydney. State of Rest is another 

It is quite probable that none of these horses will target the Australian Cup - perhaps Nonconformist or I'm Thunderstruck will be contenders 

Well done Tod.

You have got everything else right so here we go.

Final questions:

Who would win a hypothetical AUSTRALIAN CUP out of INCENTIVISE and ZAAKI? (say on a good track)

Or, is there any other horse currently racing that you believe would beat both of these nominated horses?

Your the champ, Tod.

1 It wasn't run in 2007 due to EI - instead it was run in Jan 2008 only over 1400m

2 the race was run for a 2nd time when Something Anything won it - strangely, this race does not appear in the Miller's Guide

Well done Todman, you are nearly as good as your namesake!

But for bonus points or maybe even a cabbage or two from Branded see if you can answer the following two questions.

Q1. What was really highly unusual about the Villiers that Takeover Target ran second in?

Q2. What was also very, very different about the year 2008 in regard to the running of and or scheduling of the Villiers? smiley

PS I know this sounds like BS, but I actually backed Honor In War, (one of my rare winners) hence my clear recollection of the 2008 Villiers and the reason for bringing it up in the first place.

King, I presume you are referring to Takeover Target, who actually finished 1st past the post in the 2008 Villiers, only to lose it on protest to Honor In War. Another near champ, Juggler, finished 2nd to Referral in 1998


I’ll aim this question to someone else.

While on the subject of CHAMPIONS and The Villiers.

Given that the Villiers G2 is and always has been pretty much the poor relation to the Doncaster G1 and the Epsom G1 and therefore generally attracts less quality field.

Therefore you don't often see a CHAMPION racing in this race very often these days (as opposed to BERNBOROUGH in his era)

Who was the best horse (CHAMPION?) to be beaten into 2nd place in a Villiers in the last thirty years or so?


Who was the reasonably non descript horse who beat him?

You got them Tod.

Sometime ran 6 th with Pat Glennon aboard.  

If  your’ve got the time let me refer you to an article written by Ian Ibbett.

Kings of the Turf

1961-Mel Scumacher and the Infamous-Leg Pull Derby.

Tommy Hill later in life worked on the gate at Randwick (sound familiar)

He died in his early 60’s after having a car accident. Apparently he died some time later.

1 Bernie

2 Carioca

3 Rising Prince

4 Dinky Flyer

5 Blue Era

6 Obviously Summer Fair is one, but the other horse can only be either Sometime or Bore Head as they were the only other winners who were 3 when the leg pulling derby was run. I doubt that Sometime ever raced in NSW and Bore Head from memory, only started winning races in 63 or so, so I doubt he went south in 61 - so I am stumped

There are 6 separate questions.

Whilst on the subject of the Villiers. All these horses won the Villiers. Except Question ( 6 ) 

This first question is easy - even I answered this one.

( 1 ) What Champion won the Villiers in the 40’s?

( 2 ) Name the horse who won the Villiers in the 50’s, who won The Chipping Norton twice and a Sydney Cup.

( 3 ) In the 80’s this horse won the Villiers and also won a Cox Plate.

( 4 ) In the 80’s this darling won the Villiers and a Queen Elizabeth.

( 5 ) Go back a bit. A horse involved in the famous leg pulling derby dead heated in The Villiers several years after that derby incident.

( 6 ) Two horses who raced in the leg pulling derby won Caulfield Cups. Anyone?


That’s him I’m Scarlet.

He had a magnificent head.

And his Sister Tumberlua.

Just looked at his sire Bluescope, he also left several top class Queenslanders. Bengalla Lad, Blues Finito, Speedito.

Just seems like yesterday those horses were racing.

Where the hell did those years go?!

Thanks King.

Illawong (AUS) 1958
 Aust.Id.: 158585 brown mare Date of Birth: 00/00/1958 
  3 stakeswinners & 7 stakeswins  
 by Delville Wood (GB) 1942 Contact: Mr M Foyster, NSW 
 from Plea (AUS) 1949 Deceased (29/05/1984)  
Stakes Winning Progeny
Winner Year Race Name That Year Status
Big Scope (AUS) 1966 1968 VRC Flemington Stakes Pr
I'm Scarlet (AUS) 1969 1972 NJC Northern Slipper Stakes Pr
  1974 AJC Expressway Stakes Pr
  1973 STC Theo Marks Quality Handicap Pr
  1973 STC Canterbury Stakes Pr
Tumberlua (AUS) 1967 1971 AJC Villiers Stakes Pr
  1970 AJC Keith Mackay Handicap Pr

I’m getting off the subject here (Gladys might be right, about me anyway)

Talking about good lookers. I remember Tommy Smith had a beautiful black horse (Our or My or I’m)Scarlet. Sorry can’t remember. He was one of the best looking horses I have seen on a Racecourse.

I cheered his sister home when she won the Villiers.(Cheered, didn’t back her)

I can’t remember her name either (sh!t)

(... .. .. .. ) Scarlet won a few nice races. He only sired a few winners so it goes to show looks don’t matter. Maybe size does.

Don't worry about Gladys Branded, she is still all bitter and twisted from doing her dough laying WINX time and time again.

Yeah poor Gladys has the "everybody's out of step except me" syndrome. That's why when the rest of the racing public was enjoying the spectacle of the GREATEST MARE to have raced in over fifty years, poor Gladys was continually saying, no, no you are all wrong, she's not that good and I am going to prove it by laying her each and every start.

Well, we all know how that ended.

Gladys not only went broke, but as she had also made such a dill out of herself along the way, she has obviously now lost all confidence in herself to comment on the comparable abilities of horses as she is shivering in fear thinking that she just might get it wrong yet again.

Case in point:

I ask the question above and what do we get from Gladys, not an opinion only a gob full of sarcastic nonsensical criticism. That is a sure sign that she has lost all confidence in herself.

PS For the record, I think that my money would be on INCENTIVISE.

Branded, Re Sodashi what race would you be aiming her at? Correct me if am wrong here but at this stage she only appears to be a G1 miler, but who knows she may well mature into a 2000m horse. (Were you thinking Cox Plate?) If nothing else the white horse would be something of a spectacle.

I have never forgotten the sheer spectacle of watching Raffindale (although a beautiful grey and not a white) win at Randwick all those years ago. He was a magnificent creature who looked more like a a stallion from tales of the Arabian nights rather than a thoroughbred with his magnificent chiseled head, big flared nostrils and exceptional flowing mane and tail.

I have never really been a fan of the look of grey horses but I make an exception for RAFFINDALE, what an incredibly handsome stallion he was.

Hi Gladys, your looking lovely today. Not sure about that nose ring though.

I thought Sodashi would melt your heart.

Maybe you can help me by trying to pick the winner of The Snake Gully Cup today. These horses are much traveled and they are what racing is all about.

I hope you can sit back and relax like i’m going to do and enjoy the racing,


Here we go folks, just what the world has been waiting for. Albert Einstein chats and compares theories with Stephen Hawking.

You could not write this tripe if they paid you.

Gee your making it hard King. I’m battling trying to find a winner at Port today.

If I had to, I would tip Incentivise because seems to have it at both ends of a race. I bet Moody would love to have had a few more months with him. He had a similar prep to So You Think. I bet Bart would like that over again.

I hope they all stay injury free. I know they cleared Incentivise of any injury, but I just hope he doesn't have a hidden injury.

You seem to be pretty well versed on the International scene, King. Do you think it would be a major coup if we could entice the Japanese filly Sodashi here next year? I see on her Sire's Dam's side we have the Australian Pago Pago. He won the Golden Slipper in 1963 on the Tuesday after Rosehill became a bog on the Saturday. Pago Pago raced in America and returned here later in life to stand at Stud in W.A.

Talkback Forum

Racing And Sports offers our users the chance to get involved with spirited discussion about major racing issues on your Talkback Forum. They may include chatter about racing matters, issues relating to the website, sporting conversation, betting matters and more. Please be aware that Racing And Sports now moderates Talkback to ensure posting guidelines are adhered to. The views expressed on Talkback are those of the writer and not necessarily those of Racing And Sports. You must be a registered user to write postings or send messages to other users.

Latest Posts